http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/ JewsByChoice.Org Forum: Recent Posts en Tue, 16 Mar 2010 21:13:58 +0000 http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/topic/please-go-to-the-main-site-and-register-this-forum-is-closed#post-2185 Sun, 21 Feb 2010 20:45:33 +0000 Avi 2185@http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/ <p>Hi there!!</p> <p>The new site is now open for public use, so feel free to head over and register an account.</p> <p><a href="http://jewsbychoice.org/register" rel="nofollow">http://jewsbychoice.org/register</a></p> <p>Again please note that this froum is now closed, which means that no new topics or replies can be posted. Head over to the new site! </p> http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/topic/these-forums-are-now-closed-jewsbychoiceorg-is-looking-for-beta-testers#post-2180 Thu, 28 Jan 2010 21:11:34 +0000 Avi 2180@http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/ <p>Ok guys try again here </p> <p>and check your PMs for the reg code.</p> <p>If you still cant get it to work email me from [url=http://jewsbychoice.org/contact/]here [/url] </p> http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/topic/these-forums-are-now-closed-jewsbychoiceorg-is-looking-for-beta-testers#post-2179 Thu, 28 Jan 2010 13:13:50 +0000 Iubelo 2179@http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/ <p>Me too..... </p> http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/topic/these-forums-are-now-closed-jewsbychoiceorg-is-looking-for-beta-testers#post-2178 Wed, 27 Jan 2010 20:15:13 +0000 usuario 2178@http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/ <p>Same here! </p> http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/topic/these-forums-are-now-closed-jewsbychoiceorg-is-looking-for-beta-testers#post-2177 Wed, 27 Jan 2010 17:05:41 +0000 creiger 2177@http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/ <p>Hi, Avi.</p> <p>Try as I might, I can't figure out how to sign up as beta tester for the new site. I also can't find any email address. Embarrassed...and not Heschel style (at the moment)! ;)</p> <p>Please advise!</p> <p>C </p> http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/topic/these-forums-are-now-closed-jewsbychoiceorg-is-looking-for-beta-testers#post-2176 Tue, 26 Jan 2010 02:36:26 +0000 Avi 2176@http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/ <p>With our main site moving into the beta testing phase I have decided to close this discussion forum. All the content will stay up but new conversation will need to be started on the main site. </p> <p>All registered members are invited to become beta testers on the new site. Simply follow the instructions below. Note preference will be given to long time members are frequent commenters.</p> <p>Please hesitate to reach me via the contact page on our main site or leave a comment below. </p> <p>Thanks Avi</p> <p>----------------------------------------------------------------</p> <p>JewsByChoice.org is looking for beta testers!</p> <p>We are looking for 15 to 30 Jews by choice (or soon to be JBCs) to participate in a semi-closed (meaning that while our site is visible to the public but registration and posting capabilities are limited to beta testers,) focus group and beta test of our revamped and soon to be re-launched Jewsbychoice.org</p> <p>What we need are people who are reasonably comfortable using web based social networking applications (think Facebook , MySpace or blogs) to help test out our new social networking environment at <a href="http://www.Jewsbychoice.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.Jewsbychoice.org</a></p> <p>First and foremost we want to test the site for any potential technical issues. Secondly, we are looking to test out the websites layout design and social networking features.</p> <p>Testing will not require a huge daily commitment from our beta testers. What we need is beta testers to commit to a minimum of 3-5 hours of testing during the closed beta phase, which is expected to last 6-8 weeks. A few minutes a day should do it but testers are free to spend as much time as they want on the site. Basically we just want people to play around with some of the sites features (keeping an eye out for bugs,) as well as to interact with other testers. Most bug reporting suggestions, discussion sessions, will be handled on site via group discussion forums, however some testers may be asked to participate in one or more (optional) phone interviews</p> <p>Ideally we would like our beta testers to be JBCs or soon to be JBCs with an interest in meeting like minded individuals and engage in online Jewish social networking opportunities. Of course, we are also open to the possibility of including other members of the Jewish community (preferably with some connection to JBC issues) on our beta testing team. This is a trans-denominational project so individuals from all major denominations are welcome. In fact we feel the more diverse the group the better!</p> <p>For more information on this project please visit <a href="http://jewsbychoice.org/about/" rel="nofollow">http://jewsbychoice.org/about/</a></p> <p>Individuals interested in become beta testers can reach us via email from this page <a href="http://jewsbychoice.org/about/" rel="nofollow">http://jewsbychoice.org/about/</a> . Be sure to include Beta Test in the email subject field.</p> <p>Thank you and please feel free to pass this information on to any groups, lists or individuals you think may be interested in helping out. </p> http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/topic/circumcision-i-gotta-ask#post-2175 Mon, 25 Jan 2010 23:28:54 +0000 tottenhamhotspur 2175@http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/ <p>I am 24 years old now, and I feel more and more attraction to becoming Jewish.<br /> Of course, as a 24 year old male, one thing that worries and causes alot of anxiety for me is the thought of circumcision.<br /> My choice in denomonation would likely be a reform one anyhow- which i understand prefers but does not need a circumcision.<br /> Has anyone elected to not get an adult circumcision?<br /> This is not about my dedication or honesty in my journey towards Judaism, but legitimate fears about the medical and health reprocussions. If I could do something as equally painful and signficant, I certainly would, but I fear the health risks and complications this might bring.<br /> Would I still be accepted in a reform denomonation if I made the choice to remain the way I am? </p> http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/topic/anxious-nervous-and-excited-to-be-here#post-2174 Mon, 25 Jan 2010 23:20:51 +0000 tottenhamhotspur 2174@http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/ <p>I am one begining his journey into Judaism.<br /> I have read and studied much about various religions and Judaism, and after many years and prayerful thought, I am here.<br /> This saturday I plan to attend my first synagoge service, and I am nervous as heck about it. I have only met one Jew in my life- and he was not an observant one.<br /> I need some help and support- and I figure this is the place to be for it! </p> http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/topic/denying-ones-conversion-purely-based-on-political-views#post-2173 Mon, 25 Jan 2010 13:57:08 +0000 Iubelo 2173@http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/ <p>I am from Northern Italy,Mensch. </p> http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/topic/denying-ones-conversion-purely-based-on-political-views#post-2172 Mon, 25 Jan 2010 11:31:46 +0000 Mensch 2172@http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/ <p>Iubelo, may I ask a oersonal question? Are you from Northern or Southern Italy? </p> http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/topic/obviously-im-new#post-2171 Mon, 25 Jan 2010 11:29:53 +0000 Mensch 2171@http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/ <p>I hope that you enjoy reading this forum, Dena...and all the best on your journey! </p> http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/topic/looking-for-beta-testers-to-participate-on-the-new-jjbc-site#post-2170 Sun, 24 Jan 2010 23:15:34 +0000 Avi 2170@http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/ <p>Hi there a few of us are working on a new project (see <a href="http://www.jewsbychoice.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.jewsbychoice.org</a>)and we need some people to beta test things for with us. </p> <p>preference is being giving to JBCs (as in those who have already converted) who comfortable with social networking web applications. If you can use facebook I'm sure you can handle what we are setting up. </p> <p>Of course others are free to inquire as well and we will take those whom we feel would work.</p> <p>If you are interested please send me an email and we can get the ball rolling.</p> <p><a href="http://jewsbychoice.org/contact/" rel="nofollow">http://jewsbychoice.org/contact/</a></p> <p>Thanks<br /> Avi </p> http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/topic/obviously-im-new#post-2169 Sun, 24 Jan 2010 19:02:48 +0000 Dena 2169@http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/ <p>Hello! I joined a few weeks ago but I have some trouble getting started. I've been following along with Kathy's blog as well as some others I found around here. </p> <p>Anyway, I'm Dena. I've been studying Judaism for a while now, getting serious a little over six months ago. I made myself wait six months to consider conversion. It didn't really work but I did at least stick to that commitment to wait to talk to a Rabbi. Now I've spoke with six Rabbi's and I need to make a choice in regards to where I want to study. </p> <p>Easier said then done. I am married to a Non-Jew who does not want to convert so my choices have to reflect his best interest as well as my own. Each Rabbi has been made aware of this situation. At this point there are two that I really like. One Reform and one Conservative. I will fully admit I'd prefer to study with the Conservative Rabbi but there are things that need to be discussed before we can both decide if that will work.</p> <p>So, my plan for now is to continue meeting with him a few times to see what we can do. He will also meet with my husband. I suspect it'll be a few more weeks...or even months...before I can make the final decision on where to continue my studies. I guess that's all there is to say at the moment. I'm happy I found this site. </p> http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/topic/denying-ones-conversion-purely-based-on-political-views#post-2168 Fri, 22 Jan 2010 15:56:47 +0000 Iubelo 2168@http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/ <p>It'a pity that there are still people who don't accept converts fully!After all the hardships they go through,they should be not only accepted,but admired by born Jews. </p> http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/topic/most-powerful-moment-of-my-life#post-2167 Wed, 20 Jan 2010 08:52:58 +0000 lageniale 2167@http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/ <p>I was in the play "I Never Saw Another Butterfly" when I was eleven. I played a young Jewish girl in Terezin. It gave me nightmares for years (I was in the play in 6th, 7th, and 8th grade as we did a tour of schools), but I remember feeling so connected to the story and the words written by the children in the ghetto. This may be a bit off topic, but I read somewhere about the rise in JBCs due to the concept of so many Jewish souls being lost coming back after the Holocaust. Has anyone else heard about this? It's something I find really interesting and part of me believes it could be true for me personally. </p> http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/topic/shalom-i-am-a-future-jew-with-a-lot-of-questions#post-2166 Wed, 20 Jan 2010 08:41:27 +0000 Mensch 2166@http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/ <p>It sounds like an interesting book. I think that the rabbi makes good points! </p> http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/topic/denying-ones-conversion-purely-based-on-political-views#post-2165 Wed, 20 Jan 2010 08:35:28 +0000 Mensch 2165@http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/ <p>Kathy, there are people descended from Italian conversos. Perhaps you'll find this article interesting: <a href="http://www.rabbibarbara.com/files/Hadassah_Magazine_Dec_08_100dpi.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.rabbibarbara.com/files/Hadassah_Magazine_Dec_08_100dpi.pdf</a></p> <p>It's the article entitled "Spark in the bottom of the boat." </p> http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/topic/shalom-i-am-a-future-jew-with-a-lot-of-questions#post-2164 Wed, 20 Jan 2010 04:03:09 +0000 Daniel_esp85 2164@http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/ <p>Thank you. Probably I will try conservative, I guess I have to get used to be a jew to 45-60% of jewry and a jew in question marks for the rest. As one of the coordinators of this forum said... "95% jewish". Rabbis in general should be more open and collaborative to converts. Have your read "The Rabbi" by Noah Gordon?.<br /> MINOR SPOILERS<br /> I would only say that a person converT through orthodox in less than 6 months. The candidate says "I thought I have to study a lot more" and the o. rabbi said something like "yes you need, I only say that you are ready to convert, you can be a jew, an ignorant one (but a jew)". </p> http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/topic/intermittent-site-disruptions#post-2163 Tue, 19 Jan 2010 22:35:06 +0000 Avi 2163@http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/ <p>Hi folks </p> <p>Just an FYI to let you all know that over the next week or two this forum (as well as the blog) will be offline intermittently as we undergo several hosting upgrades.</p> <p>Sorry for any inconvenience this may cause but I am sure that it will be worth it in the long run. </p> http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/topic/jbcs-and-zionism#post-2162 Tue, 19 Jan 2010 20:43:20 +0000 usuario 2162@http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/ <p>I have a question for JBCs (especially non-O ones) and Zionism.</p> <p>Does the fact that most secular Israelis (the "chilonim") view Orthodoxy as the only real religious Judaism, and Masorti / Reform as some American/European Ashkenazi movement bother you?</p> <p>In North America, I feel like I can say "oh, it's only the Orthodox who are being closed-minded". But I feel like in Israel, the same statement would turn into "The Jews of the Jewish state don't accept me, but at least the Americans accept me as a Jew"</p> <p>How can you view Israel as a homeland when most people there reject you?</p> <p>This is admittedly one of the reasons why I'm thinking of an Orthodox conversion. I don't really care about what the American Orthodox establishment thinks, I'm perfectly happy with my non-O community and the friends I've made, and the spiritual fulfillment I get from Shabbat and all the mitzvot. But to know that I'd only be grudgingly allowed to make aliyah and could never get married in Israel, and to be subject to an interrogation when visiting the Kotel, makes me very uncomfortable.</p> <p>If Judaism was all about faith, like Protestant Christianity, I wouldn't care. It's only what's in your heart that matters. But Judaism is also about being a part of Am Yisrael.</p> <p>Does anyone else feel the same way? </p> http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/topic/shalom-i-am-a-future-jew-with-a-lot-of-questions#post-2161 Tue, 19 Jan 2010 19:55:48 +0000 Debbie B. 2161@http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/ <p>I think secular Israelis think that Orthodox conversion is like getting a Jewish marriage license for secular Jewish Israeli's. If you can prove that both spouses are Jewish, then you just have to play along and say whatever the rabbis want to hear, even suffer indignities like women being asked to show their underwear (to prove that they are not getting married when the woman during a woman's period or 8 days after) and listen to someone tell you about going to mikveh every month ---I'm not making this up, we know secular Israelis who went through this. Then you have to let a "black hat" rabbi do a religious wedding ceremony (which most of your secular friends and relatives will ignore). But after all that, you have a legal Jewish marriage and the rabbis stay out of your life again.</p> <p>Secular Israelis do not realize that for conversion, the OJ converts will be asked to agree to live by very strict religious rules for the rest of their lives and lie with the fear of having their conversions revoked for not living observantly enough. The difference is that the Rabbinate in Israel feels that even secular Jews should marry according to religious law, whereas they see no reason that anyone must convert. These rabbis also seem to think that converts can't really become proper Jews and expect them to backslide or revert.</p> <p>Ironically, most secular Israelis have accepted the idea that only Orthodox Jews are real religious Jews. The non-Orthodox movements are slowly growing in Israel as Israelis discover that it is possible to have a religious component in ones life without it being quite the all-consuming aspect it is for a very observant Orthodox Jew.</p> <p>If you think you want to do an Orthodox conversion be sure that you are comfortable with a totally Orthodox lifestyle AND the people in whatever congregation you would join. Same could be said about any kind of conversion, but more so for OJ since the religious community can be expected to play a bigger role in your everyday life. It can be a very nice thing to be a part of the kind of close-knit community common in Orthodoxy. But will you be comfortable with people who might be appalled by your religious views? And do you think that you can suppress those non-Orthodox views enough for acceptance by an OJ beit din?</p> <p>I am lucky to have two minyanim that have many of the characteristics that make OJ appealing while being more welcoming to people who are different (race, sexual orientation, Jewish status, etc) and to more liberal religious view points. And yet our services are nearly identical to OJ services. Sometimes the prayer leader chooses to add the matriarchs, but other than than that there are only a few words that are different all of the Shabbat morning services. And as in O shuls, the congregation knows the service so there are a chorus of voices, not like a "performance" by only the clergy as in some non-O shuls. Most members observe kashrut and Shabbat and people often invite each other over to share Shabbat meals. The community comes to the aid of any family that has needs due to births, illness, or deaths. But an important difference, which I see as a benefit, is that we are completely egalitarian so women lead prayer, read Torah/Haftarah, take aliyot, etc. </p> <p>Daniel, perhaps there might be a small minyan that is part of a larger Masorti synagogue that would have some of the things you like about O services? One of my two minyanim is a "library minyan"---term used in the US for small lay-led prayer group that is part of a larger synagogue.</p> <p>I don't know if it is wise to put much weight on future possibilities when deciding on which movement. You could get an Orthodox conversion that is later not recognized by the Israeli rabbinate for religious identity (different from Law of the Return), since these things seem to be changing all the time lately And unless you are actually planning to make aliyah, I don't think you should end up living a different kind of life in Spain that you don't really like just because of that possibility. </p> <p>As for other Jews recognizing your Jewish status: does it really matter what some ultra-Orthodox lay person that you will never meet would think of your conversion? I would also like to add that I have Modern Orthodox friends who treat me and my children as Jews even if they would require conversion of my kids to marry theirs (or prohibit that in the case of the sons of a Cohen). I think that it is like hechshers (rabbinical supervision stamps on food): we have friends who are fine with drinking lemonade with a "triangle K" hechsher at our house (because it is certainly "kosher") even though they would not serve it in their own home because they or others in their community are think the supervisors may use leniencies they are not comfortable with. Similarly, I think maybe they think that I either am or could be Jewish, they are just not sure about the certification process (whether the rabbis were qualified witnesses by being religiously observant by OJ standards, for example).</p> <p>Daniel, the fact that you are male makes it EASIER as far as future children. If you marry a woman who has a clear Jewish matrilineal line, then your children will be Jewish by Orthodox standards regardless of you conversion status or even if you are not Jewish at all. I guess you could worry that you would be more likely to meet and marry a non-O convert if you join a non-O synagogue, but do you really want let that kind of prejudice against female converts influence the type of conversion and life you choose for yourself?</p> <p>So I urge you to decide based on which group feels right. It is your life to live, not that of others who might judge your Jewish status.</p> <p>Usaurio,</p> <p>If the trend continues, Judaism will fracture into two non-intermarrying groups, with the fundamentalist Jews becoming a racial ethnic group---non-O Jews will continue to accept converts. I do not believe that non-O Jews are going to disappear any time soon (despite the YU rabbi saying "kaddish" for CJ and basically calling RJ non-jews already). In some ways the split has already happened. </p> http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/topic/denying-ones-conversion-purely-based-on-political-views#post-2160 Tue, 19 Jan 2010 17:28:07 +0000 kathys 2160@http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/ <p>I know this is a frustrating situation for all of us. I am converting, I just started last year with this need to be Jewish that seemed to appear over the past couple of years at the age of 40 somethng. I will most likely go Reform.<br /> After starting the conversion process, I finally found my Jewish ancestry on ancestry.com as my Great-grandfather signed in at Ellis as Austrian-Hebrew. This will not count though as it is from my father's side, and my great-grandfather had converted at the turn of the century most likely due to the pressure of anti-semitism. Apparently there was a series of pogroms in that area of the world at the time. Add to that I find a good part of my grandmother's family remained in her village and evidence of it being pretty likely she had family killed in the Holocaust. However, none of this matters to certain people, I have an Italian-American mother and I will never be Jewish. It is interesting that Hitler counted people who were one fourth Jewish as Jewish and you had to convert prior to 1875 to not be taken away to the camps. This is where my grandmother's family lost out, they apparently didn't convert until 1902.<br /> I have resigned myself to the fact that certain extremely right wing people will not ever accept me as a Jew unless I go completely Orthodox. I just don't see this happening as it doesn't suit my personal beliefs, particularly in the area of women's rights. I don't see that I should have to explain my wacko lineage to anyone anyway, just to get them to accept me. I am not going around carrying my family tree and the pictures of people lost in the war to prove who I am. What I do is between me and G-d and I will chose a Rabbi and a synagogue based on spirituality and community, not based on someones rules who I don't necessarily believe in.<br /> I think part of just being Jewish in the Diaspora is already being a bit of a salmon swimming upstream. To be a Jew by Choice, probably takes even more chutzpah.<br /> I am learning everyday to live without worrying about what others may think. It really is a struggle though. </p> http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/topic/circumcision#post-2159 Tue, 19 Jan 2010 15:39:43 +0000 Iubelo 2159@http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/ <p>Usuario,I am in more or less the same situation as Daniel_esp;so I am very keen on any<br /> side effects of circumcision.You can mp me too.Thanks. </p> http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/topic/shalom-i-am-a-future-jew-with-a-lot-of-questions#post-2158 Tue, 19 Jan 2010 10:15:33 +0000 usuario 2158@http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/ <p>From the Orthodox point of view, conversions these days must be held to a higher standard due to more people converting for ulterior motives, like marrying a Jew or for aliyah purposes (Soviet and Ethiopian olim).</p> <p>IMHO though, what the rabbis are doing violates halakha, because gerim are no longer viewed the same way as born Jews. Converts are on perpetual probation for the rest of their lives, and possibly afterwards, if rabbis start to revoke conversions after people die.</p> <p>This may be a provocative statement, but with the current direction Judaism in Israel is going, Jews are increasingly becoming a racial ethnic group like the Druze or Samaritans, because soon only people who can trace their maternal "bloodline" to before the 1950's can be assured to be Jews. If Rabbi Akiva lived in 2010, he would be thrown out of yeshiva because his parents were converts. Or at least no one would accept him as part of a beit din. </p> http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/topic/women-of-the-wall#post-2157 Tue, 19 Jan 2010 09:33:16 +0000 Debbie B. 2157@http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/ <p>Kathys,</p> <p>I just re-read your post more carefully. I was thinking in terms of dress during actual religious services in an Orthodox synagogue. You might not need a skirt if you are just going to be in a meeting room at the synagogue. At the MO shul near my home, some of the women remove their hats as they leave the sanctuary and enter the social area for kiddush, possibly indicating that dress codes are different in the sanctuary. On the other hand, even though the traditional view is that women cover their hair for "tsniut" ("modesty"), I suspect that many MO women feel that it is important to cover their heads while praying which is the reason that Jewish men wear kippot. So maybe hats are a different case, and it is the activity rather than the room that requires head-covering.</p> <p>Another more relevant experience showing MO dress codes in synagogue buildings: The bar mitzvah dinner of the son of friends who are members of the above shul was held in the larger social hall of a nearby Orthodox/Traditional shul (separate mechitza and non-mechitza minyanim), and I was surprised that the mother of the bar mitzvah boy wore pants for that event. But this woman does not usually cover her hair and she often wears pants during the week. I have other Orthodox female friends who NEVER wear pants (one of them was actually upset that pants were on the packing list for girls for the Orthodox sleep-away camp she sent her daughter to). Although their synagogue is also MO, the dress expectations there might be different (I've never visited it).</p> <p>Anyway, you should just ask about the expectations for dress for the meetings at the O shul. </p> <p>You're planning to join a Reform congregation after conversion, right? If you are planning to join a Conservative congregation, you might want to own a skirt just because I would guess that most of the women do not wear pants to shul even if it would not be seen as a violation of halacha as it would be in an O shul. It's great that your conversion class really teaches about each of the three major movements of Judaism. </p> http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/topic/tefillin#post-2156 Tue, 19 Jan 2010 06:09:37 +0000 Yair 2156@http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/ <p>Yes, I wrap tefillin regularly. It's one of my favorite practices, to be honest. I love it.<br /> I wrote a post over on the blog side of the site quite a while ago about tefillin... here's a link to it:<br /> <a href="http://jewsbychoice.org/2007/11/12/tefillin-the-breakfast-of-champions/" rel="nofollow">http://jewsbychoice.org/2007/11/12/tefillin-the-breakfast-of-champions/</a></p> <p>Investing in a quality set is a smart thing to do. I bought my "nice set" about 2 1/2 years ago or so, and I have really enjoyed using them. For me, it's something about doing a practice that is so old, such an ancient part of the mesora, and something that physically - while wearing them anyway - ties me to Jews around the world and throughout our history. </p> <p>Do you know where you will be buying them from? They are easier to find in cities with sizeable Jewish populations, and after having bought them online, I am not sure I would suggest that unless you know exactly what you want... I ended up being sent the wrong set twice, and if I hadn't known quite a bit about tefillin before ordering, it wouldn't have occurred to me that something wasn't right about the 1st and 2nd attempts to fill my order. Anyway, let me know if you have other questions! </p> http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/topic/denying-ones-conversion-purely-based-on-political-views#post-2155 Tue, 19 Jan 2010 05:54:06 +0000 Daniel_esp85 2155@http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/ <p>B.BarNavi all my support... . Although it is true that many liberal rabbis have a very "permisive" understanding of judaism I would never question their conversions. Compromise is the word... </p> http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/topic/circumcision#post-2154 Tue, 19 Jan 2010 05:36:21 +0000 Daniel_esp85 2154@http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/ <p>usuario thanks for your update. I hope your sexual stuff improves up, I will have to do circ. too so I want to know more. Please comment me, privately if you want, if that "thing" get better, it´s IMPORTANT to me since I am not exactly single, not exactly married at the moment lol. TODAH </p> http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/topic/shalom-i-am-a-future-jew-with-a-lot-of-questions#post-2153 Tue, 19 Jan 2010 04:34:02 +0000 Daniel_esp85 2153@http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/ <p>Shalom Debbie, todah rabah for your answer. Yes, in Spain it is easy to pronnunce the israeli "j" ("ch" in English transliteration). In fact, 70% of the shuls I entered for the first time (I lived in the UK in that time) people asked me if I was israeli, because of my accent. Unfortunately not, only Spaniard lol.</p> <p> I´m sorry if I did not specify the situation in Spain. In Spain, jewish population is really low (10.000-15.000) so I would be recognized as a jew by almost every spaniard! (most of them never saw a jew in his life, sadly we all know why). The main synagogue is located in Madrid, the capital, and it is orthodox, that´s the place where the conservative child affair happened. There is also small comunities around the territories, as far as I know, 4 conservatives (2 in Madrid and 2 small ones in Valencia) and 1 medium size reform comunity in Barcelona. It also exists a couple of trans denominational tiny comunities here and there.</p> <p>My fear is that worldwide figures continue favouring orthodox and that soon, non-orthodox converts could be deligitimate. A jewish convert I know always talk good about U.S.A and not so good about Israel in terms of religion. Now I understand why. Conservative and Reform movement in Israel are tiny and its secular population doesn´t care a lot about affiliation. I talked to an israeli friend I know and told her my intention of converting. She congratulated me , I told here that my intentions is to go traditional, possibly a conservative/masorti synagogue. She answered that I should go orthodox because the others don´t work in Israel. After talking to her a while about conservative and reform principles (she doesn´t know much about religion, as far as I know) she concluded something like "well, it is not as bad as I thought" (no offense inteded to my reform friends). Her case is very representative of the avergare Israeli. When Israel was only a dream, no community was delegitimated, antisemitism was a more important issue, but as Chief Rabinnate of Israel gained force (with israeli population going up and US population going down) orthodox gained a lot. You see, I don´t care that they say "You are a bad jew because of that or that or that" why I really care is the speech "You are not really jewish, talk to an orthodox rabbi" that many secular israelis could agree with. It´s an hypocrite speech, given the fact that many reform and conservative jews support and help Israel.</p> <p>Fortunately, I would be elegible for Aliyah and the Administration recognizes all conversions in terms of registry. I don´t plan to move to Israel (at least, not now) but they are making it very hard to diaspora jews. I know that many secular jews in Israel try their best to balance the situation (given the fact that Israel NEEDS jews, government don´t care if they are orthodox or whatever label) but it seems that the situation is not easy. </p> <p>I don´t know the world figures, but given the fact that a lot of jews are unaffiliated, "religious" jews are divided 50/50 between orthodox and not orthodox. If we add that most of secular jews in Israel are passive, and sometimes hostile to non orthodox movements, the balance go against non-orthodox.</p> <p>The funny thing is that I love orthodox services, in the ritual way they are the best, but in terms of conversion it is better to hide the status. Europe is very influenced by Israeli judaism, so orthodox has a lot of power here too.<br /> And other questions rise too. I am a man, so, What would I say if I have children and their mother is a non orthodox ger? "Son, you are a jew, but if you travel to Israel or you go to an orthodox shul, NEVER talk about how your father became jewish". It´s really disgusting what the orthodox stablishment in Israel does to non-orthodox jews (and as you mentioned, to other orthodox converts).</p> <p>Daniel </p> http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/topic/new-here#post-2152 Tue, 19 Jan 2010 03:41:12 +0000 Mensch 2152@http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/ <p>MegasTu, I haven't studied formally with a rabbi, yet. I learnt most of what I know from a very argumentative but genial poster on a BBC forum. He was awe-inspiring.<br /> They say 50 is the new forty, and others say that 40 is the new thirty....and thirty is just a breath away from 20. Every person older than 30 knows that you're still a baby at twenty....(so yes, you're probably too young :wink: )!<br /> By the way, I agree entirely with your comments regarding studying with rabbis and their motives for refusing. The only thing is that most young people, especially English ones, would find it awkward to "badger" someone. It's a cultural difference that they've got to over-come- they need to learn a degree of chutzpah.<br /> (I occasionally also have trouble with the Captcha, so you're not alone!) </p> http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/topic/shalom-i-am-a-future-jew-with-a-lot-of-questions#post-2151 Tue, 19 Jan 2010 00:14:51 +0000 Debbie B. 2151@http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/ <p>It is interesting that you transliterate a "het" as a "j'. For many years I struggled to pronounce the Hebrew letter"het", mistakenly thinking that it was really a guttural. The daughter of Orthodox friends asked me why I pronounced "challah" as if it was spelled with an "h" and not a "het" (or "chet"). After I had finally figured out how to pronounce the "het" and I was telling my husband about my difficulties, he said with surprise, "But you have no trouble with the Spanish "j" which is basically the same sound. How would you pronounce a Spanish word spelled 'jala'?" I was so annoyed to realize that if anyone had explained it to me that way, I never would have had the problem!</p> <p>Anyway, to try to answer your questions:</p> <p>Most of the posters on this website are from the U.S., so keep in mind that most of us are not knowledgeable about Jewish communities in Spain.</p> <p>I know the most about Conservative/Masorti Judaism, but mostly about CJ in the U.S. and a little about Masorti J in Israel. I know nothing about the Masorti Movement in Spain. C/M conversions are recognized by all C/M and Reform Jewish communities. In the U.S. CJ's are still 1/3 of the synagogue-affiliated Jews in the country, and RJ's are now over 1/3 of the synagogue-affiliated Jews, so a majority of American Jews recognize a CJ conversion. But what matters is the situation where you live. The situation is likely to be different in Spain, and that it the information that you need. You should contact the Masorti movement in Spain to find a rabbi that you can talk to about these kind of questions.</p> <p>I feel that posters who suggest that it is possible to convert with an Orthodox beit din and then not continue to live as an Orthodox Jew, are giving bad advice that is based on ignorance of the actual situation. I will change my mind if I can talk to someone who is a *recent* OJ convert who does not live an Orthodox lifestyle and attend an O synagogue and has not have any problems doing so. This suggestion is always put forth in the context of an OJ conversion being "accepted by everyone". But the current reality is that NO conversion is assured of being accepted universally. A number of OJ converts have been denied recognition in Israel. Also in Israel, Orthodox conversions have been *revoked* for such "transgressions" as a woman who married an Orthodox man who did not put on tefillin every single day. And other OJ converts had their conversions ruled invalid not for anything that they had done, but because their sponsoring rabbi was ruled as having been too lenient in a recent conversion, so all his *past* conversions were ruled invalid! That ruling was reversed, but the push to restrict and question OJ conversions remains.Note that the children of women who "lost" their conversions would also become non-Jews. I read about one such woman who returned in tears to a CJ rabbi who she had previously studied with before deciding to convert with an Orthodox rabbi. She begged the CJ rabbi to re-convert her so that she would have some valid conversion.</p> <p>There was a recent case of a CJ convert boy in Spain who died and was not allowed to be buried in the regular "Jewish" part of the cemetery because the head rabbi in Spain sought counsel from the Israeli rabbinate: <a href="http://tinyurl.com/yacc344" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/yacc344</a><br /> So one might say that it is a problem to be a non-OJ convert in Spain. But I think the above also indicates the potential for OJ conversion in Spain to be made excessively difficult and for conversions to be revoked just like in Israel. So you can't play it "safe" no matter which movement of Judaism you choose.</p> <p>In fact, one could argue that OJ conversions are *less secure* than CJ or RJ conversions because they might be retroactively annuled. In contrast, there is a Conservative rabbinical discussion about a conversion that showed strong evidence of being a planned deception to allow a muslim to move to the West Bank of Israel, but some of the rabbis are still unwilling to revoke a conversion even made under those circumstances. My husband told a very seriously observant Orthodox friend (half joking) that I chose a CJ conversion because I did not want to have to be afraid that it would be taken away from me. Our friend did not take it as a joke, and said that the revocations of conversions was a serious problem that she thought was really terrible. </p> <p>Also, about the erroneous idea that an OJ convert could live a CJ or RJ lifestyle after the conversion:<br /> I do know two women who had OJ conversions who currently do not live a totally OJ lifestyle. BUT they converted 25 and 35 years ago, and they did live an OJ lifestyle for the immediate years after their conversions. They also had intended to live an OJ lifestyle forever at the time that they converted and they did not change until their lives took different turns sometime later. Also, both women are patrilineal Jews who did not want the status of any future children to be questioned as their own status had been. That was a strong motivation for them to get an OJ conversion.</p> <p>These days it is getting harder and harder to get *Orthodox* conversions done in the US to be recognized by the Israeli rabbinate. Only a small list of RCA rabbis are currently approved. The RCA is very strict about conversions. *Minimum* of two years of study, must live and pledge to continue living "for the rest of his or her life" within walking distance of an OJ synagogue or minyan, pledge to live a totally strict OJ lifestyle and to send all children to 12 years of Orthodox Jewish day schools, etc. AND the sponsoring rabbi "is responsible for providing the regional beit din with a follow-up report one year after the conversion on how the convert has progressed in his or her religious development." You can check the RCA website yourself to verify the above. I think it is clear that if an RCA OJ convert were found to live a non-OJ lifestyle, the RCA would revoke the conversion.</p> <p>But regardless of all of the above:<br /> Why be dishonest about a conversion to Judaism? I hate to be melodramatic, but isn't that like lying to God?<br /> Choose the movement that is right for you, not for its perceived "status". Each of the major movements has distinctive beliefs and styles of ritual and community life. Figure out which kind of Judaism "speaks to you" and find a Jewish community of that sort that you feel good about joining. Then do a conversion that is recognized by that community.</p> <p>I would say that it sounds like Masorti Judaism fits your beliefs and religious approach the best. </p> http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/topic/tefillin#post-2150 Mon, 18 Jan 2010 23:05:46 +0000 Kippah 2150@http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/ <p>Well I did my taxes and e-filed so hopefully in couple of weeks I'll be getting my refund :D at which point I can finally afford a set of tefillin.<br /> Does anyone else here wrap tefillin? What has the expirience been like? </p> http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/topic/circumcision#post-2149 Mon, 18 Jan 2010 21:55:09 +0000 Debbie B. 2149@http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/ <p>I'd expect that it will take several months for your body to fully adjust. I would not expect that what you are experiencing now will last forever. </p> http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/topic/women-of-the-wall#post-2148 Mon, 18 Jan 2010 21:32:58 +0000 Debbie B. 2148@http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/ <p>To readers who are not familar with the word:<br /> Frum (Yiddish: פֿרום; [frum | frim]), from the German fromm, meaning "devout" or "pious", is a Yiddish word meaning committed to be observant of the 613 Mitzvot, or Jewish commandments, specifically of Orthodox Judaism.</p> <p>Sorry to be "bageling" as Ruth Abrams the editor of "Interfaith Family" calls using Yiddish and Hebrew terms in everyday speech. </p> <p>As for proper dress for a woman in an Orthodox synagogue: you really should wear a dress or skirt below the knees, no low-cut necklines, and covering of shoulders and even elbows to be safe. The funny thing is that I find that the women who attend the Modern Orthodox synagogue near our house push the envelope on proper dress, so they wear nice women's suits with skirts that just barely cover the knees to services and many of them walk to synagogue *holding* their hats in their hands to put them on only while in the building. In contrast, most of the women in both of my Conservative (but observant) minyanim tend come to services in skirts that come to mid-calf, although some wear knee length skirts, a few wear full-length skirts, and a very few women wear pants (surprisingly, the latter includes a woman who is a rabbi in each of my two minyanim). Head covering among women in my minyanim ranges from uncovered (and would be resistant if told that they ought to cover), to "male" kippot, to wide headbands, to bandanas or scarves, to lace-style headcoverings, to hats (from baseball-style to beret to fancy wool hats). </p> <p>Anyway, if you are willing to buy a skirt for the purpose, it might not be too hard since current hip fashion has a lot of longer skirts for women. I am also small: I used to be a size 2, but some middle age weight gain now puts me in a size 4, and I'm only 5'3" tall. I have bought many skirts through the websites of Lands' End and LL Bean. The LL Bean site has in its "Sale" section a mid-calf length skirt for only $15. Size XS no longer available, but if you are smaller than size 6, you could easily sew in a pleat to make it thinner.</p> <p>I do hope that you will be able to visit Israel. All Jews need to understand Israel's special importance. The best way to develop that understanding is to visit. </p> http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/topic/circumcision#post-2147 Mon, 18 Jan 2010 21:05:56 +0000 usuario 2147@http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/ <p>Another update:</p> <p>So it's been 12 days. Now the pain is gone, so I can even go jogging now. Gotta lose the weight I gained in the past two weeks sitting in my room all day.</p> <p>Bad news is that sexual stuff isn't working for me anymore. It's not such a big deal when you're single but I wouldn't be happy if I was a woman whose husband just got this done. </p>