G-d Hates Feygeles - That’s The Real Meaning of Hanukkah?
As I was looking for something else the other day, I inadvertently stumbled upon this little YouTube, gem of historical insight and tolerance.
Warning: some of you might be a little offended by the following video. Viewers discretion is advised.
Here are a few blurbs from the video description (with emphasis added by yours truly):
Chanukah was historically and remains a celebration of the victory over Hellenistic Jewish Social Liberals and the Homosexual Agenda.
And then a little further on.
To those who are enmeshed in the homosexual lifestyle, we declare this: Homosexuality may have been the Syrian-Greek culture but it was always totally rejected by timeless values of Judaism. We recommend the reparative therapy practiced by the Jonah organization. Chanukah is a time to reject immorality and turn to your Creator for help in reembracing the holiness of Judaism, represented by the ritual of Bris, the covenant of circumcision. Come back, we will leave on the Chanukah lights for you!
You can read the entire thing here.
So why am I posting this?
Basically because, it is yet another, great example, of why I’m not, an Orthodox Jew and (despite my regular flip flopping on the subject of Orthodox Conversion) I just can’t see myself taking the plunge. At least not anytime soon! I realize that this, um,”Rabbi” is probably not representative of all of Orthodoxy. However, I suspect that the rest of the Ortho world is unfortunately not too far off, or are at least closer to him than they are to me on this issue. Now, if I am wrong, then please let me know but until I hear different, I’m going to assume that I am more right, than wrong on this one.
In the spirit of full disclosure, let me say that a lot of what the GLBT movement does, quite frankly (often) rub’s me the wrong way as well. But the kind of religious misappropriation of this issue that our fine feathered Rabbi has just done in the above video, is flat out rude, wrong and insane!
Seeing something like this (thankfully) does remind me that, although I like observance and tradition, I am indeed theologically and ideologically, light years away from the vast majority of the Orthodox world. I often say to others, that (although at times I myself, may unfortunately be these things) I don’t believe in a G-D who is an ethnocentric, sexist and bigoted, homophobe. As long as I hold to that definition, I think it’s important to keep in mind that, too often in the Orthodox world, commitment to observance seems to be intertwined with that type of bigotry and intolerance. I know that there are also many shortcomings to be found within the various non-orthodox streams of Judaism. But having said that, this is not a situation, where I have any interest in “trading up” to the Orthodox level.
My apologies in advance, to anyone who may have been offended by this post.
Until next time be well!
I am a bisexual soon-to-be convert to Judaism. Part of what drew me to (and continues to draw me towards) Judaism is the concept of the Jewish G-d/Creator/Light of the universe who loves all of his/her creation. Who does not hate.
To me, there is just no way that this kind of hate-mongering is Jewish. In the same way that the kind of hate directed at non-Christians by some Christians and at non-Muslims by some Muslims is simply not Jewish. The Jewish G-d does not think non-Jews are sinners, or that their souls will not return to G-d when they die. To the Jewish G-d, there is no gay/straight.
(The Jonah organization, by the way, is simply a Jewish version of the Christian Right organizations whose sole focus is to oppress LGBT people. I wouldn’t put any stock in what they have to say. I don’t think they’re at all representative of most Orthodox Jews. Maybe I’m naive or thinking wishfully.)
As an Orthodox convert of 9 years, I can say that my experience is not of a God who is “an ethnocentric, sexist and bigoted, homophobe.” The diatribes against homosexuality are there in the Torah. They’re read aloud at Yom Kippur mincha (afternoon) services. They exist. Jews of different stripes simply choose to deal with them differently, from denying they exist (like my in-laws who don’t read the Torah), to ignoring them, to reading them and feeling uncomfortable, to picking them up and running with them (as in the YouTube broadcast). I would say that from my Orthodox life, I see people reading them, attempting to interpret them, but being uncomfortable with them. There lies in these psukim a serious conflict between behaviors prohibited by the Torah, and the overall belief that Hashem created us as we are, and loves us as we are. No one can reconcile these two conflicting ideas with ease. But Judaism is not meant to be easy. It’s not meant to be politically correct, or even to be comfortable sometimes. I believe it is meant to challenge us, to spur us to study and think, to see that contradictions can exist, and to find the most menshlich route possible when navigating through life.
Kudos to Anonymous for taking the plunge to embrace this scrappy, messy, deep, and overall rewarding faith. Nereich/cha ya’ir (May your light shine).
Note: I edited this comment for clarity, at around 5:30 pm Pacific Time and again at 9:30.
Hi Anon
Thanks for weighing in on this touchy subject.
Although, I do think we are more or less on the same page regarding this issue, I would like to clarify my thinking on a couple of points.
You wrote:
To me, there is just no way that this kind of hate-mongering is Jewish.
I agree one hundred percent and that’s why I posted the video along with my commentary.
Then you said:
To the Jewish G-d, there is no gay/straight.
This may very well be true and I, myself more or less fall into this line of reasoning as the post above should indicate. However having said that, we are a people of the book and it would seem that our record of G-d’s word, would indicate, that while G-d may very well not hate anyone who is queer, there are biblical prohibitions against certain behaviors associated with homosexuality (see Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13).
The only reason I mention this is that I feel it was (at least on my part for not mentioning this in my original post) ,a little theologically (keep in mind that I am writing this as a committed Conservative Jew bound by Halacha) dishonest to make such a claim (as in G-d not being a homophob) without adding that there are indeed, for better or worse, (at least historically) prohibitions against homosexual activity within Jewish law. One’s which have in fact been attributed to G-D. I am not saying that I agree with them, but simply that I don’t think your comment accurately reflects the views all non-orthodox streams of Judaism, namely (my understanding) the Conservative movement. I myself, probably should have included a little about this in my original post. If only to be a little more fair and balanced!
If you reject Halacha, well then you don’t have a any problem at all, the rules need not apply. However, if one doesn’t reject Halacha, then things become a little trickier. All of that to say, I’m not sure if there is no Gay or Straight to G-d ? But I’m just not sure that really matters. It may just be a technical point (IMO) but an important one none the less.
As a Conservative Jew who accepts the binding nature of Halacha and the rulings of the CJLS, I have to be able to find a way to make my life work within, my movements Halachick framework! Unfortunately that means, I can’t just flat out reject thing’s like Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 or pretend they don’t exist. Rather I need to (at least try) to find ways to navigate them without denying that they do exist and at the same time, without selling out my sense of social justice. Fortunately (and I can only speak for myself on this) the CJLS rulings of 2006 allow me the wiggle room to do just that!
Lastly you also said:
(The Jonah organization, by the way, is simply a Jewish version of the Christian Right organizations whose sole focus is to oppress LGBT people. I wouldn’t put any stock in what they have to say. I don’t think they’re at all representative of most Orthodox Jews. Maybe I’m naive or thinking wishfully.)
I am not sure if you have had any direct contact or experience with JONAH but I have! About 16 months ago, I was working on a paper, that included (among other things) looking at the ex-gay movement and in the course of my research , I interviewed Arthur Goldberg (who is the Co-director of Jonah) , several times via email and phone. I spent hours speaking with him and although I don’t agree with him on a variety of points, I can say that NOTHING he has said leads me to believe, that he is out to oppress the GLBT community. They may not like his message but he has not in my experience tried to oppress them. He and as I understand it Jonah, take the position of being prochoice (very much in the same way one might be about abortion) when it comes to addressing same sex attractions. He has told me himself, that if someone is happy being GLBT that is perfectly fine and he wishes them the best. Jonah is (according to him), for those who have unwanted same sex attractions and don’t want to be part of the GLBT community. I don’t believe that Jonah sees its self as a willing part of some right wing (Christian or otherwise) conspiracy to oppress the GBLT. But that is just my opinion…
I have no idea if they can remove unwanted same sex attractions or not and I do know that current research seems to indicate that reparative therapy doesn’t work. Also please let me be clear that I do not specifically support Jonah or it’s goals. I am only trying to present/share what I understand Jonah to be about, based on my direct experiences with one of their directors.
Also for the Record (although this may have changed, since its been well over a year now, that I last spoke to Arthur) when I spoke to him, neither Arthur nor the other co-director Elaine Silodor Berk, self-identified as orthodox Jews. At the time I conducted my interviews with Arthur he repeatedly referred to himself as being Conservadox, although this may no-longer be the case. Especially considering the movements 2006 responsa on the subject. As for Elaine Silodor Berk (who I never actually spoke with on the phone but did exchange several emails with) if memory serves me right, she is nether Orthodox or Conservative. I believe that Arthur told me that she was Reform. Go figure?
As I have said in many of my previous posts. I for one am less concerned with a Jew’s sexual orientation than I am with her/his commitment to observance. I accept that it’s NOT up to me, to decide who other Jews sleep with , nor whether or not they Keep Kosher. Basically my bottom line is, I don’t care if someone is gay or straight. If they and their partner want to invite me over for a Friday night meal, I’m happy to accept. As long as it’s within walking distance and the kitchen/food is Kosher!
Just out of curiosity, what about the GLBT movement rubs you the wrong way? As a gay convert, I read the Leviticus tracts and most halakhic rulings with a grain of salt and consider the age of the writings themselves. My conservative shul is for the most part very accepting of GLBT folks and even works their “agenda” into their social offerings. That said, I am very glad you posted this, especially the clip of this hateful rabbi. In fact, were it not for the Conservative responsa of 2006, I would have most certainly converted Reform. Judaism to me represents tolerance and progress, and this dude is surely not an example of either. Thanks again for posting this important piece.
Kol tuv,
Sam
Shimshonit:
Thanks for sharing your POV with us. It was interesting to read and I value your take, especially as an Orthodox convert. Reading it has reminded (yup lots of remembering triggered by this post) that I shouldn’t react in such a kneejerk way and paint all of orthodoxy with the same brush. Especially when that is more or less what I am accusing them of doing. Thanks for the reality check.
Also I hope that you see fit to stick around and do some more reading and commenting. I think doing so might bring some interesting perspectives, which would be unique to your background, not mention maybe a little needed balance.
Sam:
Oh I’m not going there.LOL!
Seriously though, I just feel that often they end up being just as dogmatic as the other side of the debate. But that’s just my take on things.
BTW I’m glad that you have found an accepting shul and community to belong to.
Also I am glad that you liked (if that’s the right word) this post and found it informative.
It’s me again.
I want to thank you, Avi, for posting this and getting this discussion going. AND for following and listening to your heart on this matter and others (concerning women and their role in the world) and *not* converting to Orthodox Judaism because of it. I think that is a very brave thing to do, especially if all the other “puzzle pieces” seem to fit.
It’s so interesting how literally those Leviticus passages are taken, when so much else in the Torah is read to find its depth, like peeling the layers of the onion. I have found that so much in the Torah that seems to be saying one thing can, actually, be saying something else entirely. And that is one of the things I love about Judaism and the Torah - that there is more than meets the eye, and that questions that arise from listening to one’s heart are valid and often can cause one to see things from a whole different perspective.
What I have often heard as an interpretation of the Leviticus passages that talk about “a man laying with another man” is that those passages are actually about not committing adultery. That they’re about not sleeping with another person as one would with one’s woman/wife. For me, knowing what I know in my heart of hearts to be true (which is that queerness is in no way, shape, or form wrong), that is how I take those passages, rather than than simply ignore or deny them.
As for Jonah, we can agree to disagree. I appreciate your point of view. I really do. But to me, as a queer person, Jonah is oppressive. I am glad to hear the rabbi you talked to from there said those things. But an organization whose mission is “prevention, intervention, and healing of the underlying issues causing same-sex attractions” is oppressive, in the same way I find “Jews for Jesus” oppressive — they’re Christians trying to “cure” Jews and “save” them, b/c they think Jews are sinners. Does that make sense?
Thank you, Shimshonit, for your kind words. I can feel the light shining from you.
Anyway, I am glad for the conversation, and for the community. It is good to find you all and be in community with you, albeit remotely.
Avi - since Feygeleh also mean “bird” in Yiddish, what were you implying when you referred to the “fine-feathered Rabbi”?
But seriously folks…Not all Orthodox Rabbis feel this way. I think the passages in question (far from being “diatribes”) are easy to deal with: provided one realises that gay men do not have to engage in the one forbidden activity. I can have a perfectly healthy relationship with my partner and never need to engage in that one forbidden activity. I’m going easy for the sake of propriety, but anyone who thinks that one forbidden activity is all that “gay” is about has not only no imagination, but a really warped understanding of male sexuality.
And, of course, women are exempt.
Now… where else do we draw the line? Some of my Christian friends seem to think I should even fall in love. Others seem to think that the passages should be understood (fence around fence-wise) to mean I shouldn’t hold hands, or even be left alone with other men. I’m sure some Jews might also fit into that theological/moral category (JONAH seems to be such a place, although Avi’s experience would indicate otherwise.)
I don’t have enough info to enter into a full on discussion of this issue within a Jewish context. I’ve ordered Rabbi Steve Greenberg’s book on the topic from Amazon as a beginning. But I do agree with him (see the video link above) regarding Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 - we can’t just pretend they are not there. From my own place, as (gay) someone considering Judaism - but still on the outside looking in - I think it’s important to acknowledge and live with that part of the tradition. It’s worth wrestling with in order to find deeper meaning and greater connection with the Holy One in our lives and our Loves.
BTW - I do agree that some parts of the G/L community can be really as dogmatic as anyone else. Gives me the willies, actually: the Queer in me does not want to be strung up by dogmatic Religion-ists any more than the Believer in me wants to be strung up by dogmatic Queers. And it makes neither side happy to point out the similarities.
If anyone is interested, I plan on starting up a blog in the next month on Jewish gay male issues–as soon as I come up with a name for the blog. I am interested in covering the issues of both JBCs and JBBs, so all are welcome to participate. I’ll keep you posted!
Sam
Thanks for this post! As a lesbian beginning the conversion process–and coming from a conservative Christian background–I have struggled with the reconciliation of sexuality and faith/religion for many years. (Though, from my understanding, halakhic views on lesbianism and male homosexuality are not necessarily the same.) One of the things that I have found helpful on my journey into Judaism so far is the documentary Trembling Before G-d, a documentary that tells the stories of individuals that are members of both the GLBT community and Hasidic or Orthodox community. I found it very interesting to see how these individuals have reconciled their sexuality with the Judaism they love so much and the laws that prohibit certain homosexual behaviors. I’d imagine that most GLBT members of the Jewish community have seen this film already, but if any of you have it, I highly recommend it to everyone reading–gay and straight alike. Thanks again for this post, Avi.
Huw:
You wrote:
Avi - since Feygeleh also mean “bird” in Yiddish, what were you implying when you referred to the “fine-feathered Rabbi”?
Nothing intentionally! LOL!
As for the Gay Ortho Rabbi he is big time in the minority but you are right there is at least one Orthodox, who takes an opposite view of the rabbi from the above video.
Sam:
Let us know when it’s up and running and well do an FYI post about it and add it to our links. Hope you will do the same for us.
Sam Love:
You are welcome!
This story hits home for me, as it was religious homophobia that played a role in my own conversion decision.
When I first started looking at Judaism, I went to a Reform congregation, but while the people were lovely, the non-halachic Judaism didn’t work for me. Then I visited a modern Orthodox shul. On that day, the rabbi’s discussion was titled " A Difficult Situation in Marital Ethics." He was discussing the dilemma of a male, married, Orthodox Jew who had contacted him upon realizing he was gay. He said that he would be willing to remain married, but he wasn’t sure whether he should tell his wife.
The rabbi advised him not to, for shalom bayit. But the thing that really made an impression on me was that half the congregation piped up asking if the guy had sought reparative therapy. Given the number of suicides and the amount of psychological damage that often results from such "therapy," this was profoundly disturbing. That willingness to simply toss aside the evidence-based recommendations of every major medical and psychological association and the well-being of another human is the reason I have never again set foot in an Orthodox shul. (Well, that, and the fact that as a woman I just sat there for 4 1/2 hours while the men did all the davening and study. ) I don’t believe that the people at that shul really hated GLBT people, but that kind of casual disregard for one’s well-being is a marker of dehumanization - something for which there is absolutely no moral excuse, particularly from a group of people who have themselves been dehumanized so many times! It was something that I could have no part in. I’m currently happily in the process of a Conservative conversion.
[...] called Deconstructing the Ex-Gay Myth (and several other posts all over his blog.) And Seri tells of her experience in a “Modern” Orthodox [...]
Hmm. I’m going to convert Orthodox in college. From my understanding, Orthodox’s position is that all halakhah is binding, and it is not for us to decide if something is binding or not binding. I don’t agree about JONAH either, and I have contacted the director as well, who makes it as a choice issue - i.e., one can choose to be gay. While I don’t agree with this and certainly don’t advise "repairing" gays, I thought he was extremely civil. You will notice that they don’t actively solicit for clients like so many other LGBT-"reparation" organisations do. Because of this, I do not believe them to be oppressive, I simply don’t agree. Oppressive, to me, would be "repairing" by force and condemning them to a life without G-d.
Going back to actual Orthodoxy’s view of the fact that all halakhah is binding, not every Orthodox Jew is observant of a particular mitzvah. I know some Orthodox Jews that drive to shul on Shabbos, yet still identify as Orthodox.
Sorry for such a long comment!
Hello TM thanks for stopping by and taking the time to share your thoughts.
I just want to clarify or rather say that I’ve (more than a year ago) spoken to Arthur Goldberg co-director of Jonah and unless he has changed his mind about things I believe you may have misunderstood him. As I understand it Arthur and Jonah do not believe that same-sex attraction/feelings are a choice but rather it is a choice whether or not an individual acts upon them. I know that he went to great lengths to make it clear to me that the choice was not at the feeling or inclination level but rather at the action level. I just wanted to point out that you may have misunderstood him and what Jonah are saying.
As for your view that Jonah is not a press of I’d have to say that I agree with you 100%. Some people may disagree with them and I’m certainly not qualified to say one way or another whether they’re doing more harm than good but it seems clear to me that they are not trying to force their view or services on anyone who doesn’t (for whatever reason) want their assistance.
Thanks again for stopping by and I hope to see you around the blog some more.