Nov 29 2007
Added/edited later the same day: I reread this post and realized how negative in tone it was so I thought I should try to undo some of the crankiness. I didn’t really intend to come down so hard on the conservative movement, it’s just frustration surfacing.
The bottom line is that I am indeed grateful to the movement and it’s ideology for providing me with the opportunity to connect to Judaism and Observance, in a way that just wasn’t available in the reform movement. I am also grateful that I live in a city where the problem isn’t finding a shul to attend, its trying to pick which one I want to go to because there are so many to choose from. I also live in a town where Jewish (academic) learning is going on everywhere, I mean the American Jewish University , not to mention the HUC. It’s a great place to do all sorts of Jewish and I need to remember NOT to take that for granted.
I guess the problem is that I connected to the Conservative Movement while I was back in Canada in pretty much a purely academic way, with next to no direct contact with actual community members. So I just assumed that Ideology and practice where the same and that’s just not the case. I shouldn’t be all that surprised because it seldom is the case with things like this.
Before Tamara and I got engaged she belonged to a Chabad community and we both liked loved the commitment to tradition, mitzvot and halacha that we found there. We also loved how the community related to, supported and cared for one another. However we didn’t feel so compatible with other aspect of the community which I’m sure you can figure out without my going in to the details. More important was the fact I am not an Orthodox convert and therefore persona non grata, at least as a legitimate Jew. Add to this that I’m not at this stage in the game prepared to accept several of the theological assertions required for an orthodox conversion and that Tamara has some reservations about fulfilling some the obligations that would be expected of her if I was to pursue such a conversion and you can see why Chabad is not the best fit for either of us. Thus we began looking for an alternative where we could get the tradition but with a theology that was more palatable to us. Oh and not to mention was a place where I would count as part of a Minyan.
Obviously as we learnt about the Conservative movement we began to feel like it was going to be the perfect fit (or I did). You know “Progressively Traditional”, an environment that would support serious observance without putting our intellects on hold.
But in some important ways it’s cold and impersonal and its like pulling teeth to get support, when comes to traditional observance. We have yet to find many people (outside of our orthodox friends and acquaintances) who want to participate in an observant community, at least not on a regular basis that is. Ok, I can’t really fault (who Am I to judge) them for it but it just doesn’t make sense to me. I guess this me just discovering the reality is not the ideal, it is unfortunately far from it.
I think both of us feel as though our level of observance in many ways makes us stick out and a little odd. It shouldn’t be that way because were not anymore observant than Conservative Ideology says we should be. In fact there is still lots that we don’t do.
So what follow’s is something of a frustrated tantrum and I admit up front that it isn’t 100% (maybe not even 50% who knows?) fair but there is definitely some truth to it. Maybe someone reading this has some suggestions on how to move forward in finding a way to get our (perceived) needs met?
I am definitely open to suggestions, so don’t be shy and please remember that what follows was originally written in a moment of frustration.
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Although I originally converted via a Reform community, I’ve moved quite far from that place and I can honestly say that , both ideologically and theologically I fit quite comfortably within the boundaries of the Conservative/Masorti Movement. I suppose on the surface this means that I’ve moved to a position that, sees being a committed Jew (at least religiously speaking) as accepting the Mitzvot as being both binding and quintessential to the Jewish experience.
Now I’m far from being Shomer Mitzvot (follows all the commandments) or even Shomer Shabbos(observes all of the commandments regarding the Sabbath), but agree or disagree, I do (in most ways) see them as being the Jewish ideal. I’m not trying to convince anyone to accept or abide by my definitions, especially those who identify as being Reform, Reconstructionist or Humanist/Secular. If you don’t buy the binding nature of Halacha that’s fine, and although I do have some thoughts on the subject, they are not relevant to this post ,so I will save them for another time.
As I’ve mentioned in previous posts I’m confident that Tamara and myself at this point in time, are much more observant than the average Conservative Jew here in Los Angeles. But I’m also certain that there are indeed Conservadox Jews who surpass our own observance. The problem as I see it (and I might add a large source of my current frustration) is that the vast majority of the laity seem to be absolutely indifferent to observance if not illiterate on the subject. In fact in practice I don’t think there’s really much difference between the average Reform Jew and his Conservative counterpart. I find this hard to accept because even applying low standards, Conservative Jews should at least in theory be working their way in to observance.
I left the Reform movement because I wanted to be an “Observant Jew” and I didn’t feel that there was any real support their for doing this. Not necessarily the most observant Jew (because I really don’t know what that means) but certainly a seriously observant one.
So I of course moved in that direction, at first theologically and then as a active an participant. The services are longer and more traditional, Kiddush is always kosher and there are opportunities for study. All of which is great if you like to express your Judaism primarily in a synagogue environment.
However, what I’ve come to realize is that I am becoming something of an “ out of the shul Jew”. What I mean by that is that my sense of Judaism isn’t just grounded in official synagogue study and activities. Rather I increasingly experience my Judaism outside of the shul. For example first thing in the morning when I get up and wash my hands, recite morning blessings , put on one of my Tallit Katan and force (yes sometimes those first few minutes are excruciatingly difficult) my way into the living room to daven Shacharit. I can feel my Jewishness bubbling up through my keeping kosher even when it’s difficult. I certainly feel it when Shabbos is made sacred and I’m not talking about going to shul because that’s the easy part. It’s in the preparing of a lovely table and putting on nice clothing before Shabbos starts, then sharing a Sabbath Seder with friends. I can feel my Jewishness in the struggle to stay out of the car, off the computer and television and in not spending money for 25 hours. I feel my Judaism deeply when walking down the street sporting a Kippah and someone gives me a smart ass remark. I feel like a Jew every time I manage to make even the smallest sacrifice, out of a sense of commitment to observance. Especially during those times when no one is watching and I could get away with cheating ,if I wanted to. I feel my Judaism every time I act from a place of loving kindness and I feel it when I miss the boat by falling into Loshon Hara but am able to catch myself even if it’s after-the-fact and do Teshuvah.
Am I being a little self-important and self obsessed, maybe so, but I’m not sure if that’s such a bad thing. I don’t want synagogue affiliation or even denominational affiliation to be my primary source of Jewish identity. I want it to be observance and more importantly, I want to be in an environment that supports that kind of lifestyle. Basically I want a community that’s a little more on the page as we are.
During the last six months in Los Angeles Tamara and I have spent a lot of time “doing Jewish” at a variety of conservative style shul’s be they of officially affiliated or independent, and I’ve come to realize that for the most part Conservative, in this town seems to really only mean “ traditional” services that are longer and use only Hebrew. But apart from this the vast majority of the time there’s little to no to expectation in terms of community standards, there doesn’t even seem to be any local discussion of what the ” Ideal Conservative Jew” might be like.
I’ve actually approached several rabbis looking for feedback and guidance à la Mara Datra (basically a local halachick authority or person who makes decisions regarding observance for a given community) and it’s like pulling teeth. In fact one rabbi who is Orthodox trained and runs, what I would call an independent Conservadox synagogue, about community observance expectations at his shul, to which he replied, “what expectations of there aren’t any?” I followed up by asking him if there was an ideal level of observance that he encouraged within the community, to which he replied “NO”! He went on to say that he leaves it up to the members if they WANT to learn about things they can ask but that they didn’t. I just don’t get that! I mean OK to not pressuring but what about making the ideal known and encouraging reflection and opportunities for discussion.
There seems to be so much effort theologically speaking from the Conservative leadership that goes into distinguishing this movement from Reform, yet it just doesn’t appear to trickle down to the synagogue level at all.
Maybe I’m looking in the wrong places and maybe I’m being unfairly judged mental but that’s been our experience here in Los Angeles. There are certainly pockets of more observant Jews floating around but it seems to be the exception and not the rule. I did have a conversation recently with a retired “ Conservadox” Cantor who used to teach at the U. J. that sheds a little bit of light on the subject. I asked him why observance seemed to be so laid-back here within the conservative community and he said “ well you see it is a West Coast East Coast thing”. He didn’t elaborate and I didn’t ask anything else but I got the sense that New York conservative Jews might be more committed to being observant.
I suppose I’m just becoming rather frustrated that serious commitments to “observance” don’t seem to be valued as much as paying membership dues. Not that I don’t think hang membership dues is important, I just get the sense that once they have your money they don’t want to ask for anything more because there are a dozen Reform shul’s down the street, that you can go to for some no pressure pick and choose Judaism. Assuming that I’m right this bugs me a) because I don’t have a lot of money but I do have tons of commitment and I’m willing to work hard at meeting the ideal and b) the leadership seems less interested in supporting serious observance than they are in programming that brings in the bucks. Even if doing this is counterproductive to the movement’s “ claimed” theological program.
It’s actually gotten to the point where my (actually Tamara and my) level of observance is closer to that of Orthodox Jews (who by the way don’t even consider me Jewish) then it is to those of my own community. What’s even crazier is that Tamara and I have not hit halachick/observance ceiling of the conservative movement. Our observance is just inflated to look artificially higher than it is because the vast majority of conservative Jews around us have such a low level.
Like I said at the beginning theologically and ideologically I fit very well into the center right side of the conservative movement. At least on paper that is but the unfortunate truth is that the conservative movements theology just isn’t translating into practice, at least not around us. Wait, I take that back, it certainly does translate into practice, if you are in rabbinical school or hang out with rabbinical students but it’s hard to get in to that club.
I have a friend who is an Orthodox rabbinical student and although he won’t count me as part of a minyan, he sees me as being committed to Judaism and as someone who’s trying to work it. In a recent telephone conversation he said to me “ you’ve got converts zeal, so to be honest I’m not sure if you did 10 Orthodox conversions that would ever be satisfying to you, because theology is neat and humans are messy ”. He could well be right but regardless I’m not at a place where I’m prepared to commit to an Orthodox conversion. What I want is to be a “Observant Jew” not the “Most Observant Jew” just a normal “Observant Jew” as its laid out in the Ideology of the Conservative Movement. I want to hang out with other people who are committed to observance, they don’t need to be as observant as me or observant in the same way but at least seriously be committed to working on it. And unfortunately I really haven’t come across that the whole bunch.
Anyhow, my rant has gone on way too long so I think I’ll wrap it up. Let me conclude by clearly saying that I’m not damning the Conservative Movement and I haven’t given up on it either. I’m simply frustrated by the lack of infrastructure and opportunity within the movement for helping people like me be/become serious observant Jews.
Also, I’m fully aware of the fact I live in Los Angeles and therefore don’t have it nearly as hard as other people who live in small towns in parts of the country where they don’t even have access to a conservative community and therefore have to do their “ Conservative style observance” in even more isolation than I do.
And on that note be well!
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Hey Avi,
This is a loaded post, but the feelings and observations you write are certainly not limited to your own experience. I think for me, it all boils down to this:
Some of us who convert and who are eager and committed to living as observant Jews encounter issues that prevent us from doing so as easily as born Jews can. Here are some of them:
1) I was married to a non-Jewish woman when I finally had the strength to convert, and although she is not Christian or anything else, and enjoys some aspects of Judaism, she was not interested in conversion. I was dedicated to becoming an observant Jew, but I was not willing to end my marriage so I can do so in an Orthodox community, because that is, well, stupid.
2) Born Jews who want to be observant can just walk in to an Orthodox community. They don’t need to assume complete observance first, but converts do. Our dedication and desire to grow is not recognized, it doesn’t count for anything for orthodox rabbis. The obstacles which prevent us from Orthodox conversion are not considered, and we are stuck outside.
3) Observance in Conservative communities is largely NOT in line with Conservative/Masorti understandings of halakha, etc., and although I wonder the degree to which this is true even in Orthodoxy, the fact of the matter is we rarely have support and are even, at times, ridiculed for our observance by born Jews and other, lesser observant, converts in our communities.
These realities are extremely difficult for me to live with much of the time. I know that part of my Jewish self would feel most comfortable in a Modern/Open Orthodox setting, but that, for many reasons, the possibility of my soul being nourished in such a setting is nearly non-existent, due to the barriers sited above.
Part of the issue is that born Jews who feel the way we do can just go from their Conservative shul to an MO or Chabad one. They support us in the Conservative environment, but because of the same frustration we feel, they can’t stay there. Unfortunately, making the same move is not so easy for us, where we would face the barriers mentioned above. It is really a catch-22, and I think it causes considerable anguish among non-Orthodox converts who live observant lives. I hope it does not cause attrition, but one could see that happening: An observant, non-Orthodox convert is, for whatever reason, unable to join an Orthodox community through conversion, but is ridiculed and isolated in his or her non-O community, and because of the despair that results, throws in the towel.
I think Hillel’s approach to the questioner (the famous “learn Torah on one foot” story we’ve all heard a zillion times) should be considered more closely by the Modern O community, so there would be ways for Conservadox converts to be included more easily.
kol tuv,
Yair
Hi Yair thanks for the honest comment, I appreciate it!
I guess my quest for you is, in light of the current realities facing non-ortho JBC’s who take observance seriously, how do we move forward? It’s seems to me that trying working within the movement, would be such huge uphill battle, that it might be better to somehow circumvent it. If such a thing is even possible.
Any thoughts?
I’m not sure, to be perfectly honest. I think we do what we can, where we’re at, and trust that somehow things will work out. Sometimes I find that I notice the problem more when I spend more time in my community, particularly as a teacher. It is frustrating to spend so much time enjoying Jewish learning and practice, but to recognize that very few Jews in one’s community want to have anything to do with either on an in-depth basis. I’m not sure what the ticket is. As long as personal choice is valued above community importance, we will continue to have our synagogues filled with people for whom Judaism is a couple holidays a year and the occasional life cycle event, certainly not something visible in the home. This is not a recipe for continuity, and I am convinced that children raised in this way will not identify as Jews when they reach adulthood. So really, I am not sure what the answer is. That’s a good question.
kol tuv,
Yair
Yair,
I converted without my (non-practicing Catholic) wife as well. We’ve agreed to raise our children Jewish and keep a Jewish home–otherwise, what’s the point? But as my need/desire to increase my observance grows beyond the bounds of the Reform movement, I can’t help thinking about the “glass ceiling” of my conversion.
I’ve converted Reform not because it was easy (it was not), but because I truly identified with choice-based view of halacha, and I have very liberal and egalitarian social views. But the more I practice, the more I feel a pleasant sense of Jewish obligation/identification toward observance, less about picking and choosing. It moves me to aspire toward observance.
I have a long way to go. I’m nowhere near shomer Shabbat which is my first goal, but I am learning Hebrew, putting on tallit, learning Shacharit, studying Torah and eyeing a set of Tefillin (a [R] rabbi I spoke with dismissed phylacteries as literalism run amok).
Not bashing Reform. I would imagine most R Jews know a thousand times more about Judaism and observance than myself, who still has one foot in the goyish world. And that can be intimidating in itself.
Maybe it’s that “convert’s zeal” as Avi’s friend said, but for the first time since converting I’m thinking–dang–maybe I belong in a Conservative shul–eventually? But then again, would C even accept me? With my marriage to a non-Jew and infant-like Jewish education? Certainly not the O, but then again, I’d never be a Jew in their eyes, anyway. That ceiling won’t go away, for sure.
(BTW–it never amazes me that Jews I meet in temple are surprised that my conversion wasn’t based on a desire to wed a Jew. Why is it so hard to believe that people would be drawn the Judaism for reasons other than marriage? Last week one woman remarked–”that’s weird.” Awkward pause as I responded stupidly, “Yeah?” Oy.)
Rambling, sorry. Anyway, even if it’s a ceiling of my own making–it’s still a ceiling, and that can be a bit depressing.
I’ll wrap it all up echoing Avi’s sentiment–I just want to grow my observance. And I want to be in a supportive, understanding community of like-minded Jews.
I guess it’s lucky I’m in Los Angeles, as well! Hopefully it’s a matter of “shul shopping.”
Thanks for this blog. It is a wonderful resource and makes me feel like I’m not alone!
Hello Micah
First off thanks for stopping by and taking the time to share your thoughts. More importantly thank you for your kind feedback. Speaking for myself it’s comments like yours, which makes the effort I put into this blog, seem worth it.
I really have no idea about your marriage status and how that would affect your ability to participate and/or complete a Conservative conversion. However in terms of whether or not they would accept your Reform Conversion here is my (admittedly non-expert) opinion on the subject. From what I understand the Conservative movement will usually recognize a Reform conversion if it has undergone the following. Actually, I’ve been told that sometimes they don’t require the Bet Din but that sort of surprises me, and I have a hard time believing it.
- A Period of Study under the Guidance of a Rabbi
- Standing before a Bet Din
- In the Case of Males, Circumcision or Ritual Circumcision
- And Lastly, Immersion in a Mikva
I know that in my case here in Los Angeles the rabbis at Valley Beth Shalom only asked me if I had undergone the above rituals. They took me at my word and never asked for proof documentations or third-party verification. To be honest that kind of surprised me but I did offer to provide documentation. They just didn’t seem to need to see it or speak to anyone from back home.
Again from what I gather it’s really up to the individual Conservative Rabbi whether or not, they will except your conversion. There may be other influencing factors such as how your Sponsoring Reform Rabbi is viewed by the Conservative Rabbi you approach.
I actually think that the above are more superficial red tape issues and that your level of knowledge and observance, is probably more important to them.
In all honesty, based on my experiences here in LA, there’s very little difference between the average Jew who attends a Conservative shul and one who attends a Reform shul. So there expectations in terms of observance probably aren’t so high. But I’m just guessing on that one.
As for the glass ceiling it’s definitely there especially in terms of the Orthodox world but I doubt that it’s a huge issue, as far as moving from a Reform congregation to a Conservative one. But again it depends on the rabbi in synagogue you decide to approach.
My best advice is that you start by reading up, on Conservative theology and Observance, there are some great books on the subject. Here are a few of my recommendations in terms of books which will help you get a better idea of what Conservative Judaism is and whether or not it’s a good fit.
- Emet Ve-Emunah is their statement of principles. There are online versions available so check the links in our sidebar or just google the name.
-The Jewish Dietary Laws: Sanctify Life by James am LeBeau. This book is an excellent introductions/survey of Kashrut from a Conservative point of view. It looks at the subject from theoretical/theological aspects as well is in practical terms. It’s available from the USCJ web site and I highly recommend it.
-Mitzvah Means Commandment by Rabbi Elliot Dorff. This is another essential book in my opinion because it provides a comprehensive theological information necessary for understanding Halacha from within a Conservative framework. It is also available from the USCJ web site.
-Conservative Judaism by Neil Gilman. It’s an excellent introductory level text on the history of the conservative movement going up to the mid-90s. I like it because it’s honest and doesn’t hide the problems the movement has faced. For example the rampant lack of Fidelity by conservative Jews towards Halacha and observance. It’s another must-have and can be bought at Amazon as well as from the USCJ web site.
-Last but not least” It’s a Mitzvah: Step by Step to Jewish Living” by Rabbi Bradley Shavit Artson. I love this book it’s simple enough for bar or bat mitzvah students but it’s also detailed and thorough enough for any adult who wants a serious intro guide to Jewish observance. If you really want to step up your observance, I think this book is the best way to learn how to do it. The only thing it doesn’t cover are observances related to Family Purity, which is a little disappointing in my opinion. However, considering that you’re married to a non-Jew it probably doesn’t matter at all in your case, but that’s just my guess.
Anyhow, not that you asked for resources but if you’re wondering about whether or not you would qualify and/or would want to qualify, these books will help you out big time. They’re not the most scholarly or academic, but I promise you that studying them will put you, light years ahead of the average Conservative Jew in Los Angeles.
Also if you’re looking for a Conservative shul to check out, I highly recommend Valley Beth Shalom. It’s on the left wing of the movement and it’s so big that no one will even notice you there. And if they did, it would probably be with open arms.
Be well, have a good Shabbos and I hope to see you around the blog now that you found us.
Avi:
Did you ever think of trying to start your own minyan/havurah group made up of non-orthodox converts that feel the way you and Yair do?
Hi Micah,
Thanks for your comments, and let me say a thing or two about what you wrote:
“I have a long way to go. I’m nowhere near shomer Shabbat which is my first goal, but I am learning Hebrew, putting on tallit, learning Shacharit, studying Torah and eyeing a set of Tefillin”
Good for you! That’s a good start…
“(a [R] rabbi I spoke with dismissed phylacteries as literalism run amok).”
This is why I am not a Reform Jew, even if my shul is a Reform/Recon one… see my post related to this issue for more details. I am good with Reform rabbis who choose not to do things like this, but respect it those who do. This guy you talked to shouldn’t even be a rabbi, as far as I am concerned, if I correctly detected the contempt in his dismissal of tefillin.
“I would imagine most R Jews know a thousand times more about Judaism and observance than myself, who still has one foot in the goyish world.”
Don’t count on it. Of the Jews I know who strongly consider themselves Reform Jews, a large percentage of those with the most actual knowledge of Jewish tradition are converts. Classical Reform Judaism totally devalued Jewish study and practice, and so lots of folks raised in it know almost nothing about Judaism - if one means the actual day to day practice of the religion and familiarity with the Hebrew language and texts.
“BTW–it never amazes me that Jews I meet in temple are surprised that my conversion wasn’t based on a desire to wed a Jew. Why is it so hard to believe that people would be drawn the Judaism for reasons other than marriage? Last week one woman remarked–”that’s weird.” Awkward pause as I responded stupidly, “Yeah?” Oy.”
Actually, if she was raised in a Classical Reform environment, like the one the tefillin-hating rabbi you described must encourage, it’s no wonder people are blown away that anyone is attracted to Judaism, and leaves everything behind to become a Jew - not for the jokes as in Seinfeld, not for the food, not for marriage, but for JUDAISM and the JEWISH PEOPLE. I have never met a Classical Reformnik who credits the depth and vitality of Jewish spiritual practice, study, etc… for keeping them in Judaism, so it is not terribly surprising that such attraction seems alien to them.
Anyway, I just thought I would provide some feedback about those points you raised. Thanks for your comments, and good luck with your path!
Shabbat Shalom,
Yair
LOL, are you being smarmy Yankel? I suppose this is sort of the subconscious idea behind our group blog.
Now regarding your minyan comment.
See the thing is that I’m (for the most part) really ok with the shull situation in this city. Where I seem to be getting frustrated, or rather, where I am feeling isolated, is outside of shul.
Make sense?
I guess its just a real desire on my end to be part of a community that puts observance front and center, out of synagogue, as well as in it. Because doing this, changes (in a big way) how daily life is lived. From where we eat, to how we arrange ourselves according to Jewish time, law and ritual. It would just be really nice to have people around who not only understand but can also share in the joys and struggles of this way of life.
Hope that makes sense.
Yankel,
I have thought about such a thing myself, but then I run in to this: I don’t want to be surrounded only by converts. I am not sure that this will sound PC or helpful, or like a rational opinion which a convert could hold, but I want born Jews around me too. If I go to a function and the only ones there are converts, it makes me feel separate from the Jewish People as a whole. As a convert, I WANT TO BE IN THE MINORITY :)! A minyan of JBCs doing their own thing on their own looks 1) crazy to liberal, non-observant Jews, and 2) comical to conservative/orthodox observant Jews. So it’s between convincing born Jews in our communities to “take it up a notch,” or not being counted in orthodox circles…. either way feels a bit lonely at times.
Disclaimer: I am not, despite what my comments seem to indicate, hopeless or ready to give up. Far from it, and I am and always will be a proud and observant Jew…. but the struggles are real and they are issues we should try to address.
Ok, time’s flying…. Shabbat Shalom all!
Yair
Avi:
I’m not being smarmy at all. In terms of the praxis to which you aspire, you are an Orthodox Jew who, because of the rules of Orthodoxy are doomed to live in exile from that community. That’s life, so be it. But you can’t be the only convert in Los Angeles who feels that way. There must be other converts who also aspire to an Orthodox level of observance but can’t find that level in the communities that accept them. So make your own community.
When Jews started moving to Los Angeles in the twenties and thirties,they wanted to belong to the local country club but couldn’t because it was restricted. What did they do? They started their own club. Its still in existence to this day and it’s quite posh, thank you.
Do what they did. Start your own club.
Yankel and hear what your saying so consider it, taken under advisement. But like I said, I’m really just hoping for a stronger informal community situation.
Besides, you know what Groucho said about clubs!
Avi:
And he said it about the country club I mentioned.
Avi,
I came across your post via a Jewish blogpost aggregator and I felt like I was reading my own life story, but with one small difference - I was born Jewish.
Although my parents were always Conservative in practice, we belonged to a modern orthodox synagogue in New York in the ’60s and 70’s until I was about 12. Like many Jews at the time, my parents chose comfort and a nicer neighborhood over religiosity, moved to the suburbs and joined a Conservative shul. It was a little hard making the adjustment “down” at first, but as a kid I just got used to it after awhile. Besides, we had always really been living “observant Conservative” - keeping kosher at home but not outside, going to services and even weekday evening minyanim much of the time, but not all of the time, etc.
About 10 years ago, I finally met the woman of my dreams. She is the daughter of a convert of the Conservative movement. As such neither she nor my daughters are considered Jewish by the Orhtodox. So now, I find that the movement I grew up in and actually respect a great deal for their level of education and observance is off limits to me. Not only that, but even on the rare occasion where I have come to attend an orthodox service, I feel out of place and out of touch - I sometimes can’t believe how much of the full ritual and prayer I’ve forgotten. (I do enjoy the occasional Chabad learning series, but it’s really just for me personally).
Anyhow, now that my family and I am firmly planted in the Conservative movement in a large Texas city, I often get frustrated by the lack of involvement and interest in the halacha, outside of the usual 10% of the congregation that does particpate regularly. When I do go to Shabbat services, I often find that I’m one of a few dozen people fully comfortable with the Hebrew and the singing in a crowd of 100-150. I know that if I turn to the next guy (or gal) and say, “Hey what do you think of this particular passage in this week’s parsha?”, I’d just get a shrug from most people.
I am in no way perfect, shomer Shabbos, completely kosher, etc. but I want to strive towards that goal and there is very little guidance or support for increasing one’s observance in the Conservative community. More importantly there is zero community pressure. Maybe it wouldn’t be so bad if I was actually a little embarrassed to meet someone during dinner on a Friday night at the local babrbecue joint or Chinese restaurant.
I send my kids to a Conservative Day School where I do believe they are receving an excellent Jewish education. But don’t even get me started on the lack of seriousness on the part of the majority of parents who allow the kids to leave their Judaism behind in the classroom as mommy picks them up with a cup from McDonalds in their hand (seriously).
And the point of all this is…..
What I am slowly discovering is that the more I think about Judaism in general and take a look around, the more I realize that each individual Jew maintains their own level of education and observance and that it’s almost impossible to find a congregation that will meet one’s spiritual needs perfectly.
I don’t get upset anymore at the Orthodox who don’t accept my family, I don’t get upset with the Conservative shuls (even my own) that try to push the boundaries of ritual and are making constant changes to their rituals to “stay fresh” and I don’t get upset with Reform Jews because I guess I’m just happy that they care at all. All I know is that I will do the best I can and I believe that Hashem will accept me wherever and however I turn to Him as long as I strive to learn the mitvot, do as many mitzvot as I feel comfortable with, and treat all my fellow Jews with respect. And, with any luck, someone less observant than even myself (not to mention my children) will see how much joy I take in my Judaism and will perhaps think of getting more involved, or want to learn a little bit more. That’s really what it’s all about to me.
Now it’s my turn to apologize for the rant, but your post really struck a chord in me that I’ve been hard pressed to express or explain.
Bets of luck to you and yours.
Avi - thanks for this post. My own experience going to High School in NY Catskills’ Borscht Belt has led me to expect more from Conservative folks… and my choice to live in Northern California will show in the prejudice of the following question: How much of the problem is that you’re in LA?
Howard, I’m glad that you found the blog and that you could relate to some of my frustration. I guess that
misery does in deed love company. LOL, just kidding.
Now, my question to you, is there really nothing other to do, than learning to be ok with the status quo? I mean are you really Ok with the as you put “zero community pressure” from our Conservative Movement?
Huw, to be honest, I don’t know for sure. However this is”Progressive” California, so it likely is part of the problem but I’m not so sure it’s all that different on the east coast.
I think Yankel’s suggestion is on the right track. I’ll add:
What about staying an active member of the shul of your choice, but getting friends together for mutual support and fellowship? In a sense, co-opting the Liberation Theology idea of “cell groups.” Congregation B’nai Jeshurun in NYC uses that model, I think.
Maybe it’s just that the Catskills are a kind of secluded (even only 2 hours from NYC)? Secluded in time, anyway, and not on the coast.
Huw, although I have indeed heard of “Liberation Theology, I don’t know much about it, and know nothing about the “cell groups” you write of. However as I have already mentioned to Yankel, I suppose that this blog can be seen as an attempt, to do just what you are suggesting. At least on line that is.
Avi: I’m sure you’re familiar with the old saying that a Conservative shul is one with an Orthodox rabbi and a Reform congregation. Sadly, that’s got some truth to it.
The Conservative movement is one that draws more ire from the Orthodox than Reform does — I think because it claims some level of halakhic literacy, commitment and practice. That means, ironically, that it’s harder for rabbis to lead this movement than it is for lay people: Conservative rabbis are presumed to have a level of literacy and practice that would never be tolerated by their congregants. On the other hand, some of their congregants (i.e., non-Orthodox converts) would not be welcomed by the Orthodox, and those same congregants would not feel their spiritual and communal goals would be met by Reform.
So Yankel is onto something when he urges you to start your own minyan. You and Tamar are actually ideally suited to the task. And Jews longing for that kind of spiritual experience will come out of the L.A. woodwork if you do.
Have a good week.
Hi David, thanks for sharing your thoughts on the subject.
Yup, the Conservative Movement is a strange bird in deed. It looks so different on paper than it actually is in practice and I guess I was just broadsided by that fact and am still trying to come to terms with it. I find it interesting that you wrote “Conservative rabbis are presumed to have a level of literacy and practice”. Are you suggesting that the presumption is more times than not, inaccurate or or is it often the case but not 100% of the time?
As for beginning some sort of support network (I hesitate to use the terms minyan/havurah) I would not know the first place to start and to be honest I lack both the knowledge or stability Jewishly speaking. In terms of being an idea guy I’m pretty good in fact may be even better than most but I doubt that I have the appropriate knowledge and or skill to pull such a thing off.
Now of course having said that, if Yankel was by my side, than anything is possible. Right?
It’s an interesting suggestion David, but I’m curious why you think Tamara and I are well suited for trying to start something up other than being located in Los Angeles. Care to elaborate a little?
Another point that was brought up by Yair, is that as a Jew by choice I also think it’s best to be a minority in the community.
Thanks again for sharing your thoughts David.
Avi -you told me that I should check out this blog, as I would possibly like (or dislike) it . . .
I pushed it off for awhile one reason another due to my business, be it real or supposed.
I do like it. Do I agree with every thing that it says here? No. But, despite the fact that some things fly in the face of Judaism as I see it, it’s still very nice and still very Jewish.
Why? Besides everyone’s inherent right to an opinion, I honestly feel that you are person on a quest for the truth, and the more you mull over different ideas, the clearer your opinion becomes and the closer it comes to that said truth -the truth of the Torah and G-d, which is in essence the truth of your soul. That truth rings out loud and clear here.
May the message of Chanukkah of adding in light be applied to everyone of us in our daily lives.
Mottel thanks for stopping by and sharing your thoughts (not to mention saying hi).
Please feel free to come by any time and share your thoughts from the other side of the halachick divide. I know you well enough to know that your thoughts/opinions are honest, literate and well-intentioned and most importantly worthy of consideration. I for one know that I probably won’t agree with everything you have to say, but I also know, that what you have to say is usually worth listening to. Okay, well except maybe for the stuff about the war in Iraq, but everything else. LOL!
The war in Iraq is nothing compared to the chickens and global warming.
This has been an interesting blog discussion. I live in the center of Illinois and am active in a Reform congregation. I can certainly understand your situation. All other congregations of any sort are over an hour away, and we do love our community, but we (my husband and I) can relate to the idea that trying to be more observant makes one stand out a bit. We would like to push ourselves to take on more mitzvot, but you are correct, without that ideal to push toward, it can be difficult. However, we see the ideal in books, from rabbinical discussions, and online. If I want to look up how others have transitioned to more modest dress or gone beyond “kosher style” to true kashrut without a kosher butcher, I can. It is difficult without support of others within the community, but the community is beneficial in other ways. In our area, the congregation represents the survival of Judaism, any Judaism. Thanks for your thoughts—-good luck!
Avi,
Thanks both for your rant and your explanation. I’m sure there are many converts who find themselves in your shoes.
As the product of a non-Jewish mother and Jewish father, I found my way back to Judaism through the Reform movement (which accepted me as Jewish when no one else did). Deciding I wanted more than was offered there for Hebrew and Jewish learning, I came to Israel to study. I didn’t think highly of Orthodoxy before I came, but after meeting dozens of people whose lives were exactly what I had hoped my Jewish life would turn out to be (learned, skilled in Hebrew texts, in touch every moment with their Jewishness without being isolated or backward intellectually) I decided to take on an Orthodox conversion. It wasn’t easy, but I have been rewarded in so many ways I think it was worth it.
I think you have been given lots of supportive and informative comments by your other readers. What I would add is what was helpful to me: As a non-halachic Jew pursuing my path, I found a community of people whose level of observance I hoped someday to achieve. That way, I could join in with the things I was ready to do, and to the things I wasn’t say to myself, “Not yet.” But having them there meant I could talk to people who did them, get their interpretations of how and why to do them, and eventually, when I was ready, join in with those practices too. My Modern Orthodox shul in the Boston area had a rabbi and a community completely supportive of those who were finding their way but weren’t there yet. We had people checking it all out, people who were comfortable with some things and not others, people in the process of conversion, and people there for loved ones who had chosen the Orthodox life in order to be able to understand that choice. It was a very encouraging place to be with people of all ages, FFBs (frum from birth), baalei teshuva, learned and less learned, and the others I mentioned above. There were plenty of role models for me, and I made wonderful friends of the people who took me under their wing and talked to me, showed me how they did things in their house (there was plenty of variation), and taught me.
There is an impression that everyone who calls him- or herself Orthodox practices the same way, but there is a range within Orthodoxy, just as there is in the other movements. Orthodox rabbis are often able to answer tough questions that others shy away from or don’t have answers to. They are often comfortable with tension and contradiction. And while there is much in Orthodoxy that appears medieval to those on the outside, once inside one gets a glimpse of how advanced Jewish tradition is in many ways, and how much progress is being made on all sorts of fronts (women, connection to the secular world).
I live in Israel now but have continued to find people from whom to learn what I want to learn about Judaism, people who ask questions, people who challenge what they disagree with in Judaism. To my great surprise I have found the Orthodox world vibrant and varied. I hope you see it as an option for yourself if that is what you seek.
Avi:
You and Tamar are ideal to create a minyan because you’re a forward-moving, thoughtful Jew. You want to learn more, know more, and do more. People like you are the impetus which moves the rest of us forward. You don’t have to be the most knowledgeable to form a minyan; merely motivated.
My Conservative synagogue is very traditional and much of the service (and the morning minyan) is lay-led. Nonetheless, this is a core group of people who are extremely literate. Much of the rest of the congregation is passive, because this core group is so hands-on. Still, with a couple hundred people there every Shabbat, it’s certainly a committed bunch. And I mention this because Conservative Judaism is (like most other denominations) very diverse within. So keep looking around. And whenever you’re in come to town, you’re welcome to daven at my shul.
Ziva:
Thanks for weighing in with your thoughts, it’s truly appreciated. Seems to me that your managing your situation rather well considering your location and community options. I think you’re dead on when you say it’s difficult without community support. I suppose this is where it’s different for you and I because I have observant community all around me. In fact the nearest rabbi and synagogue is a Chabad outreach shul, which are often mentioned on this blog. Tamara has been a member of this community for years and is good friends with the rabbi’s wife. I know the rabbi and I have no doubt that he would do anything and indeed is hoping that I’ll ask him for help pursuing an Orthodox conversion. In fact he goes out of his way, more to help me can’t to Judaism than any other Reform or Conservative rabbi I’ve met today.
So basically for me it’s not a question of lack of observant community because it’s all around me. If I’m willing to take the Orthodox plunge anyways. My dilemma and struggle is that I’m trying to do a serious level of observance, outside of the Orthodox world. This in theory should be no problem because of the Conservative Movement claims to be halachick but the vast majority of the laity are uninspired and uneducated. So, I end up being the odd man out. Indeed the argument could be made that I’m choosing to stand at the window looking in because I don’t want to play by Orthodox roles. It’s not actually that I don’t want to play by Orthodox rules just that I’m not ready to do that and I’m not convinced that it’s the only way. However, just a short six months in Los Angeles is quickly proving me wrong.
When and if my need it for observance in a community that is observant outweighs my need for ” progressive” issues whatever those might be. It will be time to reevaluate the situation in who knows what will happen.
Thanks again for sharing your comments.
Shimshonit:
First wow to you regarding your journey. It couldn’t have been easy for you. As for my doing an Orthodox conversion it’s certainly always on the table as a “possible” option and I believe that any arguments or reservations I still have, wouldn’t be too hard to work past. However, I’m not ready to throw in the towel in terms of making a seriously observant Jewish life work from within, a Conservative Jewish context. At least not just yet anyways. Also truth be told any Orthodox conversion I underwent wouldn’t be mine alone. What I mean is that I’m married and married to a Jew by birth (or as some would say a Jew by chance) and although (I’ll probably get in trouble for saying that is, I’m not lying) she sees herself as a traditional Jew who likes her connection to the local Chabad community, but I’m not sure she’s willing to do the work that would be necessary on her end of things for my conversion to actually happen. Not that I’ve asked her to or that I think she should. However this indeed has been a point of contention between us, because she gets to take all sorts of things for granted that I do not. She can pick and choose even in terms of more tradition, observance and community. Orthodox or otherwise and no one says a thing. Now me on the other hand, well I cant really do that. Not and get away with it.
But even if she was/is prepared to do it all tomorrow, I’m definitely not ready.
David:
Thanks again for sharing your thoughts and I just might take you up up on your offer next time I’m in Chicago.
“I have thought about such a thing myself, but then I run in to this: I don’t want to be surrounded only by converts. I am not sure that this will sound PC or helpful, or like a rational opinion which a convert could hold, but I want born Jews around me too. If I go to a function and the only ones there are converts, it makes me feel separate from the Jewish People as a whole.”
Yair:
I understand what you are saying and I feel where you are coming from. But I think you are wrong. Dead wrong.
You were either standing there at Sinai or not. In your first post you said you were and I believe you. If that’s the case you have a responsibility to live your faith as that faith moves you. If you cannot do that with an Orthodox community, then establish a community of your own with other Jews (by choice) who feel the way you do. They are Jews too, no matter what others might say and you should own that.
The Chabadniks are always talking about their mission. Who is to say that this isn’t yours? You may have a lot to teach the rest of us; Judaism needs renewal, and who is to say that renewal, at least in part, shouldn’t come from those souls who were lost to us and have now returned.
You’re either a Jew or your not. Only you can know your own soul. If you are then own it. Be it. Be the Jew you want to be with the other reclaimed souls of Israel, and don’t think about how others may or may not except. The real issue is HaShem, not us.
Who knows, you and others like you may be the light the rest of us are waiting for.
Yankel,
Thanks for your kind words, and of course, I agree with what you said. This is one of those issues where there is an intellectual agreement or recognition of the reality you wrote about (I am a Jew, was at Sinai, etc…), but at times the frustration of the road for a non-O, observant, JBC is enough to make one lose site of that. Thanks for the reminder!
Hanukkah Sameach,
Yair
See the thing is that I’m (for the most part) really ok with the shull situation in this city. Where I seem to be getting frustrated, or rather, where I am feeling isolated, is outside of shul.
Make sense?
I guess its just a real desire on my end to be part of a community that puts observance front and center, out of synagogue, as well as in it. Because doing this, changes (in a big way) how daily life is lived. From where we eat, to how we arrange ourselves according to Jewish time, law and ritual. It would just be really nice to have people around who not only understand but can also share in the joys and struggles of this way of life.
I started my conversion with a Reform rabbi. It didn’t work out because all my questions had to do with kashrut and the rabbi didn’t seem to be too happy with that since I was asked if she wanted me to find an Orthodox rabbi. I then made the decision to pursue my conversion as a Conservative one.
My congregation is very small. There are about 60 families and we have a student rabbi. He encouraged me to take on more and more halacha, which I’m happy to do. But at times, it is very discouraging when it seems like it is only you, a couple of other congregants, and the rabbi that are adhering to halacha.
I thought maybe it was because our congregation is so small. See, the thing is each mitzvot I incorporate brings greater meaning and joy to my life as a Jew. And I want others to share that joy.
Shira you said:
I thought maybe it was because our congregation is so small.
Nope from what I understand 10% or less within the Conservative Movement are labeled as being observant. In fact last Friday at a Shabbat Dinner, I spoke with a student in the Rabbinical Program at the UJ (or whatever it’s now called) about observance among rabbinical students. He told me that “expectations” are made clear but it’s really left up to the individual. I got the sense that, not that many of is fellow rabbinical students are even doing the basics, like daily Teffilin and Tallit Katan. However when it comes to Kashrut they seemed to be much more committed.
Anyhow, that was one conversation, with one rabbinical student. So at best my information is anecdotal and by no means definitive.
So basically like I have said many times before. Great on paper but NOT so hot in real life, at least when it comes to observance. But it is what it is and we are where we are. My hope is to find a way to make things work without needing to move even further to the right.
Yesterday I came across this post from last September, by some guy (no idea who he is) which I thought, aptly described what it is that I have been seeing with my own eyes.
Sorry it took me so long to get back to you. Just to refresh, you asked me this question:
“Is there really nothing other to do, than learning to be ok with the status quo? I mean are you really Ok with the as you put “zero community pressure” from our Conservative Movement?”
I think that part of the point I was making was based on my feelings on the Orthodox which has changed over time. I used to think of “Orthodox” as some monolithic, ultimate Judaism. I thought that if only all Jews could be Orthodox and observant that everyone would be happy.
It was only until recently that I thought to myself - “Wait a minute, we’re Jews! We’re not supposed to get along!” All kidding aside, it was the discovery of the point made by Shimshonit that even (especially?) among the Orthodox there are differences of opinion as to how to be a good Jew.
We just have to face facts - there is no Pope to tell us what is ultimately right and what is ultimately wrong. The status quo is, and always has been, how Judaism is defined. Being an observant Jew in different times and places used to mean animal sacrifices, never socializing with “the goyim”, or only wearing a suit and tie to shul. Who knows what other acts and prohibitions that were “necessary” for beign observant have vanished over time. Just as the Jewish status quo in the past has been defined by communal rifts - Hellenists vs. Maccabbees, Hasidim vs Mitnagdim, Zionists vs Assimilationists - we are all just pieces of a puzzle that are constantly being reshaped and recut - and yet Judaism survives!
Part of what keeps me going is the faith that although the majority of us are non-observant, I believe Judaism will survive. I will do my best to keep and pass on our traditions, but I have accepted the fact that the future of Judaism does not rest with me, or my congregation alone. Do I feel guilty that others of all branches are more learned and more observant and are perhaps more responsible for preserving our rituals, history, etc? I absolutely do. But I’ve forgiven myself nonetheless. And I imagine that somehow, I and the community I belong to, are, soemhow, part of G-ds plan.
Happy Hanukkah!
Howard:
Thanks for getting back to me and I think you have made several solid points but the following really hit home with me.
I will do my best to keep and pass on our traditions, but I have accepted the fact that the future of Judaism does not rest with me, or my congregation alone. Do I feel guilty that others of all branches are more learned and more observant and are perhaps more responsible for preserving our rituals, history, etc? I absolutely do. But I’ve forgiven myself nonetheless. And I imagine that somehow, I and the community I belong to, are, soemhow, part of G-ds plan.
I think you are right on the money with the above. It’s a mature and reasonable line of thought in terms of understanding, ones role (or maybe reality) as a Jew. I’m going to try and remember your words moving forward because I believe doing so will help to ease some of the tension I often feel within myself as well as towards others.
Thanks again for sharing.
But in some important ways it’s cold and impersonal and its like pulling teeth to get support, when comes to traditional observance. … But apart from this the vast majority of the time there’s little to no to expectation in terms of community standards, there doesn’t even seem to be any local discussion of what the ” Ideal Conservative Jew” might be like.
I could not agree more with this post. I am pulling these two quotes because they seem to be the whole issue wrapped up inside two sentences. I began working toward conversion with the Reform Movement but felt that the commitment (at least in theory) to halachah in the Conservative Movement was a much better fit. I have found that it is difficult in getting help with Hebrew much less anything to do with observance in my shul.
I am not saying that everyone is not interested in being a committed Jew but these type of Jews are few and far between in my experience. I have found myself just not going to shul anymore and trying to learn on my own. I don’t want the reactions/actions of some to keep me away from davening in my shul (the only Conservative shul in town) and I am struggling with returning to my shul and my observance.
Thanks Avi for expressing what I have been feeling for quite awhile. I am glad to see that I am not alone!
Hi R-E
Thanks for weighing in on this sensitive subject.
You said:
I have found that it is difficult in getting help with Hebrew much less anything to do with observance in my shul.
This is one of the reasons why JBC.og was put together. It’s an attempt (albeit a limited one) at filling this very void.
My own way of dealing with this issue (that being getting things out of Shul)recently has been two fold. First I show up to shul interested and excited about doing Jewish, so that the powers that be, can see that I am present and eager to learn and I give them a chance to repond to my (you could call it)zeal! Second (and I know this wasn’t reflected at all in the above post) I remind myself of all the way’s, I AM NOT, Orthodox and more importantly, everyting the Conservative movemnt gives me that I just can’t find anywhere else. And is guess a third is that look elsewhere for what I can’t find at shul.
You also wrote:
I am not saying that everyone is not interested in being a committed Jew but these type of Jews are few and far between in my experience. I have found myself just not going to shul anymore and trying to learn on my own. I don’t want the reactions/actions of some to keep me away from davening in my shul (the only Conservative shul in town) and I am struggling with returning to my shul and my observance.
Not that you asked but I’m going to share some advice. Advice I might be smart to follow myself!
I say (not that I’m great at doing this)own your own observance, and don’t let others become the reason, you don’t attend shul or lose your connection to observance. Also whenever it is possible, be the change you hope to see in your community. Lastly (and I suck at this big time) don’t judge others by your own measuring stick unfairly. Especially if you aren’t looking around to see, if they might not be doing Jewish in a way you don’t but should/could. I know an Ortho guy here in LA who tells a great story about how is father always used to remind him, that Reform Jews are busy doing the Mitzvot, that orthodox Jews all too often, simply choose to ignore.
I have been ‘orthodox’ all my life but can relate very much to many of the experiences shared here.
For the last few years I’ve found myself in the miserable situation of really disliking many of the trappings of the orthodox world, and yet feeling close to G-d and His Torah.
I think in the end we are all given our unique tests by G-d and it is up to us to make the best of where He has placed us, with the gifts He has given us, surrounded by the people He wants around us.
Hi Joseph,
I thought you made some pretty interesting comments above, especially the part about being disenchanted with some of Orthodoxy, while still feeling close to G-d and Torah. I think that most of the time it is people and people’s stuff that gets in the way; I rarely feel like G-d is the problem in my Judaism :)! Seriously though, I appreciate your thoughts about us being where G-d has placed us, and that sometimes we have to learn to thrive where we’re at.
Where I Orthodox it would not be the Chabad route, but having said that, I love a teaching of the last Lubavitcher Rebbe that every person has a job that G-d meant for them to do, and only they can do it, and if they don’t find out what it is and do it, an important part of repairing the world will go undone. I will live the rest of my life as a faithful Jew, and had I come to Judaism prior to marrying, it is entirely possible I would have converted through a modern Orthodox process. Because I am married to a non-Jew, that was not an option. But there is a lot I can do where I am at, and I really have faith that I’m in the non-Orthodox world for a reason. Last month I helped four Jewish men lay tefillin for the first time, and I am reasonably sure that if I hadn’t been available to teach them, at least a majority would never have done this. Orthodox sources certainly wouldn’t have persuaded these particular brothers. So there is work to do where I am at, and making peace with the kind of Jew I was meant to become - versus the kind I could spend time wishing I’d
had a chance to become - is important work for me to do.
Thanks for your insights!
kol tuv,
Yair
This post has been running nearly as long as "Cats."
I notice from your comment you had the opportunity to teach some men to lay tefillin, Yair. Kol hakavod! Was it in shul? What a great mitzvah for you to share with people for the first time. It sounds like you have some good work to do; perhaps you are exactly where you’re meant to be.
I must admit, though, I’m wondering why you said that "Orthodox sources certainly wouldn’t have persuaded these particular brothers" to lay tefillin. I suspect that the opportunity presented itself to you because you live among people who don’t do it regularly. It’s harder to say that for people living in an Orthodox community. (Picture the poor guy standing on a street corner in Boro Park trying to find someone to help who hadn’t laid tefillin!) Of course, Chabad has people out in Harvard Square and other heavily trafficked places doing just what you did, and if anyone walked into an Orthodox shul before Shacharit (or any other time) and asked for help in putting on tefillin, I’d venture to guess he could find someone willing to help.
I find it peculiar that on the one hand, Orthodoxy is accused of trying to force people to perform endless numbers of senseless mitzvot, and on the other hand, is sometimes labeled as cold and unwilling to reach out. Both of these accusations are unfair generalizations, even if they do have a grain of truth to them. Orthodoxy, while it believes it is going about Judaism the right way, does not make a habit of trying to force itself on others. It demands a good deal of the individual, and them what wants it are best off seeking it out rather than having it thrust upon them like so many kilos of Brussels sprouts (i.e. good for you, but definitely an acquired taste).
I know you well enough now to believe you meant no offense in what you said. May you continue to help others to perform mitzvot in your part of the world.
Shimshonit you wrote:
Orthodoxy, while it believes it is going about Judaism the right way, does not make a habit of trying to force itself on others. It demands a good deal of the individual, and them what wants it are best off seeking it out rather than having it thrust upon them like so many kilos of Brussels sprouts (i.e. good for you, but definitely an acquired taste).
While I would certainly agree with you that some of the critiques leveled against the Orthodox world are indeed an unfair characterization, as you point out there is a grain of (and some would say many grains of) truth to such accusations. I think part of the problem is that the term "Orthodox" is such a big tent label , one which encompasses both the extremely progressive and liberal all the way to the religious ethnocentric fundamentalists.
To play the devil’s advocate here for a moment, I’m not sure that this is Liberal Judaism’s problem. I mean if Jews want to identify with Orthodoxy then they need to understand that “Orthodoxy” also includes people who beat women on buses in Jerusalem or start riots over gay pride parades (All in the name of Torah True Judaism). Orthodox Jews may not need to be willing to take the heat for it all but they certainly should expect to have some criticisms leveled against them as part of the Orthodox world. Like I said I’m just playing the devil’s advocate to try and make a point.
Now as for your quote above I think you are right a lot of the time but this blog with its participants and readership are the one people who are(going to) proved to be the exception to your rule more times than not.
For example (and I say this without knowing who Yair is specifically referring to) here are a few examples where I can see his comment being perfectly legitimate.
One - maybe the people he was helping our non-Orthodox male converts to Judaism in which case, he’s probably right the Orthodox wouldn’t have much interest in assisting them in fulfilling this or any other Mitzvot.
Two - maybe one of the people Yair was helping was indeed a Jew by birth who happens to be a female. If this is the case (even if this may be a halachick gray zone where leniency is possible) I doubt that the majority of the Orthodox world would be all that interested in assisting such a person to fulfill this mitzvah.
Three - maybe the people Yair was trying to help included a female convert. If so see points one and two above.
My examples may not fit what Yair intended with his comment however they do legitimately support his comment.
Also in terms of orthodoxy not pushing their views I would agree with you on most things, except for almost anything that relates to non-Orthodox converts and/or conversion. They’re certainly pushing a stranglehold regarding Jewish status (who is a Jew) in Israel and they do politic play games here around non orthodox access to Mikvot (is that even a word).
I’m not telling you that 90% of the critiques leveled against orthodoxy are accurate. I’m just trying to point out (hypothetically of course) how and why some situations could lead to Yair making such a comment and why he may have made it.
Shimshonit,
Sorry about that, I didn’t communicate very clearly on my last comment. When I said that my brothers wouldn’t have been helped by the Orthodox world, what I meant was they wouldn’t have felt comfortable learning in that context. They are very liberal people, and because of their respective perspectives on Orthodoxy, they wouldn’t have gone to an Orthodox place to learn. But they would learn in their liberal shul. I can see how my comment could be taken either way though, and I should have worded it more clearly - it certainly was in no way a slam on Orthodoxy. I know the local Chabad shliach would have been only too happy to help if they’d asked, but my point was that they never would have. Thanks for pointing out the problem with my wording!
For the record, the shul I was in is one in which I have organized a men’s minyan that meets one weekday morning per month right now. Keep in mind 1) these guys were all raised VERY classical Reform 2) we live in a very spread out and rural Jewish community 3) There hasn’t been a weekday minyan at the shul in over a decade, not since the Conservative affiliation was dropped. So… those of us wanting to lead our fellow members in to greater observance have an uphill battle. But this new group is blossoming well, and, b’ezrat Hashem, we’ll be able to meet weekly before too long. These are small steps, but necessary. And if some key mitzvot like tefillin and kashrut can become accessible to otherwise relatively unobservant Jews, we’re all better for it. It’s a humble beginning, but one in which I take a great deal of pride. Meanwhile, I’ll continue laying tefillin daily on my own :).
Thanks again Shimshonit, I appreciate your point. Shabbat Shalom!
Yair
LOL! I should of kept my mouth shut (well you know what I mean) and just let Yair reply, because (especially after his clarification) my above comment just comes off as looking MEGA cranky!
Oh well! Not too sure what’s up with me this week but my apologies!
Avi, I so totally get what you’re saying and feel it quite often myself. I live east of Pittsburgh….there’s nothing in my ‘hood but a very small and slowly dying Reform synagogue. Yes, Pittsburgh has it ALL but like you and like Yair, I converted to Judaism through a female Reform rabbi and my husband of 21 years is Catholic. Yes, we converted our son (he had his bar mitvah at 15 in January) and have tons of Jewish friends…Jewish activities and live a VERY Jewish life. But we ARE restricted from the orthodox community we wish to join simply because of who converted me and my son. It’s a suffocating feeling for sure. Conservative does appeal to me and I identify as traditional when asked and like you both, I work on my levels of observance but I don’t feel observance is unimportant. Perhaps unlike born Jews, we see the beauty of it all. They just think they are stuck with it. I love this post though. It says a lot I have always wanted to but didn’t know how.
Wow, I can’t believe we are still getting millage out of this post!
Elianah I’m glad that you liked the post and could relate. I think we all need to the best we can with the situation we find ourselves in.
Wishing you the best!